You’ve Come a Long Way Baby

I guess I’m not sure why your 1982 Berkshire should be relegated to “the dustbins of history.” What you have are two completely different models that really shouldn’t be compared against each other.

For one, your new locomotive and that older Berk aren’t even based on the same prototype. Lionel’s postwar Berks were freelanced models loosely derived from New York Central Hudsons, not the S-2 Berkshires of the Nickel Plate Road on which the Legacy model is based. In fact, the tooling on the older Berk was initially used for the standard Lionel Lines roadname and had nothing to do with NKP.

Second, your first Berk isn’t a scale model. It’s traditional sized, meant to run on tighter radius track with the variety of postwar equipment that Lionel made and which were the basis of the hobby for so many postwar kids. That part of the hobby is still the focus for many on this forum. I enjoy both sides of the hobby, running my scale equipment at the club and my traditional stuff at home on a small layout. So I appreciate both.

And finally, one is a conventional model, the other is command control. Again, plenty of hobbyists have stuck with tradition, appreciating the simplicity of conventional operation and the easy serviceability of the electronics inside. I do both, and appreciate both.

The only connection between your two models is that they are both Berks and both lettered for Nickel Plate Road. You might want to rethink your view and appreciate both for what they represent independent from each other.

Gotta agree with Jim. I received my first set one heck of a long time ago when you consider that I am over 70 years old now. I still have most of the items that came with the set, the transformer is in regular use to this day. The GP still runs although not quite as well, kinda like me I guess , so it would be considered a shelf queen by most. To me it isn't so much a shelf queen but more a special piece that represents a lot of memories of friends and family who are no longer here but we had lots of fun playing with this and other trains oh so many years ago.

I've always liked the 8215.  I talked my wife into getting one for me for my wedding present...  Kind of sad how they had a pretty high price then as she paid several times what they are worth today.  Doesn't matter though, I love the engine.

Jim R. posted:

I guess I’m not sure why your 1982 Berkshire should be relegated to “the dustbins of history.” What you have are two completely different models that really shouldn’t be compared against each other.

For one, your new locomotive and that older Berk aren’t even based on the same prototype. Lionel’s postwar Berks were freelanced models loosely derived from New York Central Hudsons, not the S-2 Berkshires of the Nickel Plate Road on which the Legacy model is based. In fact, the tooling on the older Berk was initially used for the standard Lionel Lines roadname and had nothing to do with NKP.

Second, your first Berk isn’t a scale model. It’s traditional sized, meant to run on tighter radius track with the variety of postwar equipment that Lionel made and which were the basis of the hobby for so many postwar kids. That part of the hobby is still the focus for many on this forum. I enjoy both sides of the hobby, running my scale equipment at the club and my traditional stuff at home on a small layout. So I appreciate both.

And finally, one is a conventional model, the other is command control. Again, plenty of hobbyists have stuck with tradition, appreciating the simplicity of conventional operation and the easy serviceability of the electronics inside. I do both, and appreciate both.

The only connection between your two models is that they are both Berks and both lettered for Nickel Plate Road. You might want to rethink your view and appreciate both for what they represent independent from each other.

Jim;

I assure you, I am well acquainted with the lineage of the 1982 Berkshire. If I place it next to an old 736 in my collection, the casting is almost indistinguishable. Of course, the finish of the ’82 version is a marked improvement over the PW version (the shiny finish, the white accents, the die cast tender, and, of course, the sound of steam) – a small step for train enthusiasts!!!

I am painfully aware that the PW and ’82 versions are not scale, but as an O-scale engine, it was comparable to almost all the Lionel rolling stock I owned at the time, or was available. I do realize that there are many in the hobby today that run and prefer PW/late 20th Century conventional equipment. I think that’s great, but it is just not for me. I have caught the scale bug, and have no desire to be cured!!! In addition, as a confessed techno-peasant, I can not see myself trying to run conventional on my Legacy/TMCC layout. Another small step for the train enthusiast.

Finally, while most people who know me would tell you, I am something of a traditionalist. But when it comes to my trains, I am a 100% command control addict. The ability to have all the control in my hand (trains, switches, accessories, etc.) far outweighs tradition – although I do use two PW ZW’s to power my layout. Finally, a giant leap for mankind   

As for the “dustbin of history”, that is a euphemism for a closet – similar to the Island of Misfit Toys!!! Since I know I will never run any of this equipment again, I store it until I can try find a new home for it where it will be used and appreciated. Over the last year, I have “gifted” a bunch of items from the dustbin to new home (Mitch M. did some unmentionable things to an engine or so, but it makes me feel good that it is being used). I am sure that I will be looking for a new home for the old Berk as well as a number of other items in the next year or so.

In the end, all of your comments sort of validate my original post – we have come a long way from what passed for a PW/‘82 Berkshire to a scale model with all the bells and whistles… literally. And if my “relegation” of the old Berk upset you, I would recommend you don’t read my next post on this thread in the next day or so – the “dustbin” is filling up again.

Doug W. posted:

Gotta agree with Jim. I received my first set one heck of a long time ago when you consider that I am over 70 years old now. I still have most of the items that came with the set, the transformer is in regular use to this day. The GP still runs although not quite as well, kinda like me I guess , so it would be considered a shelf queen by most. To me it isn't so much a shelf queen but more a special piece that represents a lot of memories of friends and family who are no longer here but we had lots of fun playing with this and other trains oh so many years ago.

Doug;

Tobe perfectly clear, I am not a complete heretic... I still have my first set of trains from the early 60’s as well as my brother’s from the late 50’s or early 60’s. In addition, I inherited my cousin’s collection. These all have sentimental value and will never see the dustbin. I am hoping to find some wall space to actually display them. Unfortunately, as I mentioned in my reply to Jim, I know I will never run them on my layout, but maybe I’ll set up a Christmas carpet central some day - I do have a spare PW ZW after all   

I’m not upset. You can do what you want. So by all means find a home for that old equipment. You’ll find plenty of folks like Mitch happy to take it off your hands.

But I assure you that as an N scale modeler since the 1980s and an HO modeler before that, and as an O gauge enthusiast since the early 1990s with dozens of scale 3-rail engines that I run regularly in command, I feel that you certainly are hardly enlightened in comparison when it comes to scale trains. If we count my childhood, I’ve got a 50-year pedigree in scale trains. That includes a scale NKP No. 765 Berk by MTH in O.

And yet I enjoy both, scale and traditional O. Makes life much more enjoyable.

And since Lionel and MTH are still making plenty of traditional equipment, and that Lionel’s all-time biggest seller is now (by far) the Polar Express set with its traditional-sized Berk (ironically modeled from the same family of locomotives you’re so proud of), I’m not sure there’s much validity in the notion that there has been some sort of evolution at all.

 You’ll find me running my Lionel Polar Express traditional Berk at home and my MTH scale Berk at the club, perhaps on the same day, this Christmas. God, I enjoy not worrying about such realities!

APPLE-

No matter WHAT the Locomotive you just bought is one Bad A## Engine Enjoy it!!

Nick

I remember buying the Lionel (MPC) 8307 Southern Pacific Daylight around 1983. Up to that point, the vast majority of steamers available from Lionel were black - Henry Ford would have approved. In the MPC era, we suddenly had a number of colorful choices, but the Daylight really jumped out to me.

Connecting the cable from the engine to the tender was a pain, but the whistle and Mighty Sound of Steam was, at the time, state of the art and pretty spectacular. Being less than scale, it could run on the most common O and O-27 track of the day, unlike my new Legacy version. Like it’s post war predecessors, instead of a detailed cab, all you see is the head of the motor. Unlike the NKP Berkshire, the Daylight’s tender is plastic. 

Compared to the current Legacy version, the MPC Daylight looks small, but fit nicely with much of the available freight and passenger offerings of the time.

And when you examine the detail, clearly, in some respects, we’ve come a long way!!!

I think this is a  real interesting thread: the evolution of Lionel steam.

Please feel free to show more!

Mark in Oregon

IT IS ALL GOOD!  ☺

Run what you enjoy, and enjoy what you like!

Nice looking locomotive, Paul! Run the livin' daylights out of it.

Jeff C

great pictures and Interesting comparison and perspectives. Some of us go different ways with these technology changes. I am one who went apples55 path. When I became more fond of the new stuff, the post war and mpc items slowly were sold off. It is about fun and the new technology was more fun for me. I echo tinplate, it is all good and we have good choices.