Anybody have an idea as to who would have the proper wire and length of the field winding wire for a 150 humpback? Have tried to goggle/search this and am coming up empty. The armature is fine but have a break in the field winding. I know I could send this off to the motor doc. but by the time I spend the money, is it worth it....? Meanwhile, I'll post in "wanted" for a replacement motor frame with good winding.
thanks,
John
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Where is the winding broken? If it is at the end and you can unwind one loop and make your connections, it will work. It's not ideal because the length of winding is sized to match the armature based on a total resistance. When you shorten it, you affect that equilibrium. On the other hand, you could measure the wire diameter and then keep track of the number of wraps so you can re-wrap the right number of turns. Be for warned, in general, it is a pain to do a clean and neat job of winding a field or armature, but you can certainly do it in a pinch. Look at it this way, you can try it and if it no workie, you can find another on Ebay or send it to the Doctor. Good luck.
Thanks Dennis,
Was driving me nuts so took apart and found break about 1/3 of the way in. Agree that redoing myself is gonna be a bugger but at this point, decided to keep rest for parts and heck maybe I can get going home style. It's not going anywhere and new challenges!
John
To further explain, as Dennis points out, someone had in the past stretched the wire to complete a broken ground close to on the frame. Depending on how I muniplated the wire would open or close conductivity. Interesting that this thing would run but not right and brushes got hot. Hope it helps someone else...
John
Cool! Glad you figured it out, and what you found makes perfect sense.
The typical gauge of wire on a lot of Lionel’s motors was either 28 or 30 gauge enameled wire. You can usually buy a spool of 50’ for cheap. If you attempt it, make sure you clean the enamel off the wire, where you plan to solder it together. Put a dab of nail polish over the splice, to insulate it again. It’s worth the shot, as I completely rewound the field coil on a Postwar 2020 turbine motor, and it runs as good or better than a stock motor.
Just be darn careful you do not nick the enamel or what ever coating in the winding layer, that's where you will get a hotspot or short between to wraps or one and the laminations and then the factory smoke can disperse and we can't have that! If you do it, good luck and just go slow and be careful and you should be fine. I've always wanted to take two junk motors and make a double stack motor out of them but that would probably be more pain than it would be worth.
Thanks for all the good input! Appreciate it! If all goes well, I'll pass along.
John
Small update for readers. After getting the wrong gauge wire, I broke down and bought a wire gauge measuring tool for the smaller size wires. Turns out the original wire is 24 gauge - on the humpback -not sure other motors. Once I make more progress will do another update and Happy New Year!
John
Hope it goes well!
Is this a match your field? This field has seven plates. Resistance comes out to .9.
Stew hi,
I've attached two photos of what I'm working with. Yes there are seven plates but the brass stud arrangement looks different. The photos are upside down but the screw holds the beginning of the winding and then exits top center in the back, where it then goes to the brushes. This is from a later version #152 (believe type 5) that has the more rectangular brush holder.
The solder marks you see are my doings to help ensure the plates stay together (although a bit sloppy should work).
John
I came across this motor. It runs. Yours for postage. Field resistance 1.4, each armature plate is 1.9.
Done deal, will contact you via message. Thank you and still plan on redoing what I have to see how it turns out. By the way, since I didn't count the wraps removed, turns out that field wire measures 27' exactly taken from original wire.
John
Final post on the subject. It worked. When I went into this, it was more of "what can I get away with" using the bare minimum of tools/knowledge. Since I don't sell the stuff I work on, what the heck- it's broke can it be fixed without the proper tools? Yes, but will be cautious before trying again.
Sorry folks, still can't give you a count on the wraps. Still don't know the resistance readings since my meter is cheap, only check for open or close. Didn't have proper staking tools for posts of motor body or press tools for re-install of wheels or armature gear - other than a small machinist vise and regular hand tools. In fact, I had to unspool my new insulated magnet wire onto a fishing rod spool using a 100' tape measure as I went since the spool I bought had 198' on it.
Tried to blow this engine/commutator up by running for 20 minutes solid- it got warm but not hot and was literally floored it worked at all. Still have some minor tweeks to do..rollers/brushes
It ain't pretty but it worked! Thanks for the help along the way! Photos and video attached.
John
Great work John! You have learned a lot done something most would not try. It feels good doesen't it? Look at it this way, itwould be easier the next time and even without the right tools you've proven that one can move mountains with ingenuity and careful work. Thanks for posting your efforts. I do appreciate it!
Like Dennis said great work those old prewar motors in my opinion were very well made and you brought one back to life.
Plus there fun to tune up so easy compared to stuff nowadays.
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