ERR Turbine Sounds

Well, it sounds like the turbine, so if that sound is annoying, yes.   I've used several in upgrades and have them in stock.

They're annoying. I thought about changing the chip in my PS1 Turbine 6-8-6 for a traditional steam engine sound.

You can turn the volume down.

Haha well I guess that answers that. I think I'll go with the growl of a Pullmor and that classic air whistle from my childhood if it'll work with command control. Will it work with command control?

I don't think you'll get the air whistle working without some extra circuitry.  You're in luck, the AC Commander (which is obviously the choice here), has a logic output when the whistle control is activated.  By replacing the whistle relay on the tender with one driven by that logic signal, you can have command control of the air whistle.

GRJ, how would you tether the wires from the engine to tender?  Is their an IR option?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I don't think you'll get the air whistle working without some extra circuitry.  You're in luck, the AC Commander (which is obviously the choice here), has a logic output when the whistle control is activated.  By replacing the whistle relay on the tender with one driven by that logic signal, you can have command control of the air whistle.

You're the man! And I think I actually know how to do that. It feels good to know enough to be dangerous.

@Windy City posted:

GRJ, how would you tether the wires from the engine to tender?  Is their an IR option?

Is there a benefit to IR over a cable posing as a water hose? I'm not opposed to IR. I only have one engine with it so my experience is limited.

IR will complicate this job a bunch, I'd just stick with a wire.

You can buy a 5V input relay module intended for microprocessor connections on eBay for around a buck or two, add a cheap 5VDC power source and drive the input with the whistle output of the AC commander.  You'll have your whistle relay to spin the air whistle.  I'd put all of that in the tender if you can fit it, and just run the logic signal over from the engine.

eBay: 313167279581, $1.89 shipped.  It needs 5V at around 50-60 milliamps to power the module and provides a 10A contact to drive the whistle, should be enough power.

I hate to be negative but, there isn’t going to be much room in the tender to stuff an AC Commander if the air whistle remains in place.  I’m not sure there is room in the boiler if you take out the weight.  And, if you take out the weight, the 671 will barely pull itself and the tender.

That's not negativity. I've been wondering about this. I haven't opened it up yet. I was wondering how big the e-unit was. I thought I might be able to remove the e-unit and set it aside. Otherwise, I'll just have to get more creative.

Weight loss isn't an option. The weight of those S2's are what I like about them.

I sincerely doubt you're going to shoe-horn an AC commander into the whistle tender along with everything else. GRJ stated "run the logic signal over from the engine".

Besides, the AC Commander really wants needs to be located in the engine as you'll have wires going to the motor.

Here is an AC Commander set loosely in the shell of a PW turbine. As expected, it appears to be an easy fit once the E-unit is gone.

If you have a 671 with an early coil coupler tender, I would suggest running another wire from the AC Commander back to the coil coupler for command control activation.

You might also want to run track power and ground to the tender and share them with the engine rollers.  This makes for much more reliable running over switches.

My backup plan for the Commander going in the tender was to shelve the stock tender and find a bigger/longer tender and just use that even though the stock tender is classy looking and cool. I can't remember if it has the coil coupler or not. Fingers crossed.

Good call GRJ. Might as well make use of the roller if it's there.

With the TMCC board in the die-cast locomotive, what will you use for the antenna?

TRW

A common plan is to add a bell cord of #30 Kynar wire and use that as the antenna.  However, the #671 doesn't have an exposed bell.  I'd probably look at replacing one or both of the handrails with tinned solid wire with clear insulation for use as the antenna.  I have also floated the tender shell and run an antenna wire through the tether.  If you can't find suitable wire with clear insulation, another option is solid wire and fine clear heatshrink to make the handrails.  It would be easier if you could get plastic stanchions, but I don't have a source for those anymore.

@PaperTRW posted:

With the TMCC board in the die-cast locomotive, what will you use for the antenna?

TRW

Hot gluing it under the plastic coal load in the tender was my first plan. After that, what GRJ said haha I made a little box the specified size of the AC commander and will test fit it tonight. I was short on time last night but it seems there is a metal lug sticking up that the e-unit screwed to and it's in the way. I was hoping to make this upgrade totally reversible but we'll see. Maybe it'll fit anyway or I'll get creative.

I have a big metal weight in the front of the locomotive sandwiched between the smoke puffer and e-unit. It doesn't look to be pictured in @GregR post above so I don't know if that's stock or an add-on by the last owner.

I did find the wires inside are in rough shape. It needs new wires regardless of any upgrades. That's for sure.

The ballast weights were added to later production 671 turbines to improve traction. They were subsquently removed when the magne-traction equipped 681 was released in 1950.

What are your plans for the smoke unit as you consider the TMCC upgrade? Those old PW smoke unit elements are around 16-18 Ohms. Can the feature output on the AC Commander handle this task? And if so, can the old smoke unit crank out at a steady 18V without issues?

I have a personal limit of 20 ohms or more on the TMCC smoke output, any more than that and the smoke triac starts to reach dangerous heat levels.

Ballast weight, that makes more sense.

Heck...I guess I overlooked the smoke unit. Back to the learning curve I suppose. I don't know much about the old PW smoke units. I figure I could find myself a modern unit to stick in there if I can't power it off the board.

I'll have to see what the feature output (pins?) are rated for on the board. I don't know what a triac is (triple accelerator!) but maybe they could be upgraded? I assume it's not prototypical for a steam turbine to puff smoke out but I'm good with puffs.

TRIAC

The smoke triac really isn't going to be easily upgraded, I think you just need to make the smoke compatible with it.  You won't find a rating for the R4LC smoke output stated anywhere, and looking at component specs will be fruitless unless you understand the limitations of running the part with no heatsink.  Trust me, less than 20 ohms is probably not a good idea.

You could replace it with a fan driven smoke unit, given the fact that it's a turbine, it would be simple, you don't have to do anything special to have it chuff.

Thank you for the link!

Fan driven smoke unit makes sense. I'll get to hunting around for one tonight sometime.

@BillYo414,

I hate to bring up an old thread, but this is exactly something I was thinking about.  Did you finish this project?  If so, can you send a pic of what the inside of the 671 looks like, and what exactly you installed?  I would really appreciate it.

I think bringing up old threads to request a follow up is a fair call @texgeekboy.

Unfortunately, I did not finish this project. I needed a Dremel to cut a metal piece from the inside so that the kit would fit. By the time I was able to get a Dremel, the project was not on my radar anymore; building my layout became the priority.

On that note, I did do a conversion on an 0-8-0 that had mild success. I botched the wired tether pretty badly but I paid pennies for the locomotive so it was a good learning experience. I'm glad I decided to try it first there instead of in the turbine. I believe the Commander fits once the little plate that the E-unit is attached to is removed.

Do you have a 671 on hand that you're looking to convert?

I have a 671 that my dad bought in the 50s, and a new (to me) 681 I got for a very good price on a recent Stout auction.  The 681 was in way better shape than I expected, inside and out.  After cleaning it a bit, it runs and looks as good, perhaps better than my 671.

I am still in the process of unboxing my new (and first) CAB-1L and BASE-1L that I got this week, and will be installing it in the coming week(s) after I figure it out (I'm all old school Lionel).  I have a new TMCC diesel I haven't run yet that I will use it on.

After that, yeah, I want to convert one of steam turbines, but like you in a few weeks I'll be taking down my 'on the carpet' layout and hopefully building a proper, bigger platform.  So, the 671/681 upgrade effort may get sidetracked for months.