New 60' Box Cars

Penn Central green is.... well, whatever it was that day. I have 3 or 4 PC boxcars and none of them are the same color. For Penn Central, its perfectly mismatched that way. At least in the photo, thats a passable shade of PC. Its not blue, and its not kelly green.

I've got the Ford car coming tomorrow. I might get a couple more if the couplers aren't a problem. Have you tried yours on the track yet? Also, that Ford blue looks purple in the photo. Is your reference to color for the PC only? I grew up 1/2 mile from PC's, formally Pennsylvania, Ebenezer Yard where a couple hundred PC box cars were left to rot for a number of years. Can't say I remember one consistent color among the batch.

I think the Blue is good on the Ford.  Yes, I don't know if you heard something about the couplers???  I have not yet put my cars on track but in my hands the couplers seemed a little wonky.  I won't have time to run until tomorrow or weekend so you might know before I do.  Was there discussion about the couplers?

As far as PC color, I think of them as "pre-faded".  I model the early 1970's (1976 cut off).  The build date is 1974 on them so they faded super fast or bad paint. 

So Lionel has moved some import production from China to Vietnam?  Interesting.

They look good. If you want paint fade, CNW "Zito" Yellow starts out so bright you can see it from space, then fades to a washed out white/yellow after a couple of years.

Disastrous!!!  I purchased 8 of the new Lionel 60' BCs.  The new couplers are truly worse than TERRIBLE.  I had some time tonight to run them for the first time.

1.  The couplers won't lock by themselves on several of the cars unless you manually slide the release tab forward.

2. I couldn't get any of the them to couple with any other car (including among themselves) under normal operating conditions.  Not once.  Atlas 60', older Lionel 60', new Lionel 86' nothing.

2a. I locked the couplers on two and tried to lift one up and place one locked coupler into the other.  The telemetry of the new Lionel couplers would not let me properly lower any Lionel car (any car) down for a level connection.

3.  With the jacked up cars I ran them around my O138" oval - over 12' in diameter and these buggers have such a weird coupler shanks the train didn't make it once around the oval without these monsters derailing or derailing the car they were connected to.  I can't even imagine what's going to happen on O72.

I finally gave up, took them all off and ran my train of 60' and 86' round and round with no problems.

In conclusion I find it really difficult to believe that QC at Lionel did not experience the same problems and yet they were shipped to dealers and sold.  Next stop, Lionel customer support.

Can you show us a video of the coupler problems?

Let us know how Customer Service works out! I won't preorder anything until they make a formal statement to ALL the buyers about these couplers. I believe their only commitment is to the buyers of the METCA, (I think I got the right club), milk cars.

Will do (let you know).  I'm not mad, I know they were all produced in Viet Nam and perhaps a brand new partner/manufacturer.  While a pain in the butt for us, it's all about how they (Lionel) handles it.  I'm sure there is a breaking in period / getting people that have never used a toy train / to understand the importance of design, quality and reliability.  I suspect (hope) it will get worked out FAST.  If (viet nam) keeps Lionel healthy and in the game for many decades to come, it's just a speed bump.

Falconservice - It will not be the most entertaining video but i'll try to capture tonight.  When placed locked coupler in locked coupler there is no special point at which they derail.  It could be on the straight or curve, mine (O138) so not tight.

The coupler shank is rigid to the truck, no flex or give.  Because the design is such and new couplers don't lock on any other coupler in a perfectly level natural way, one of the four wheels is slightly akimbo and it some point comes of, is forced or forces the connected car off the rails.

I think if there was some play in the shank to truck connection they might work to a degree.  I don't know how you get around the coupler not closing and locking in normal operation???

I have the new P-S 60' box cars for the DT&I and Santa Fe.

I have run them. These box cars have dependable truck and couplers.

Andrew

Good News - perhaps it's just certain runs, I only purchased Penn Central and Ford.

As FalconService requested, pictures of coupler issues, videos of non-coupling, multiple speeds up to bumper car speed and with different cars and combinations of cars ALL LIONEL.  Dull viewing but I think it captures the issues I'm experiencing with the Penn Central and Ford 60'.

I did lock all the couplers on the new cars and place them locked together at the end of a train this morning and on the positive side they didn't uncouple or derail one another.

A couple more videos

There is no other way to say this but when you get to this price point of a car (same as Atlas Master Line more than MTH Premier) the cars should operate flawlessly.  Lionel, I'm one of your top fans - are you listening???

Having same problem with cars in the manufactures railway set from 2019 vol. 2 catalog. Cars are made  in Viet Nam. The couplers are just not right. Stopped ordering Lionel rolling stock once again. Will wait till they come out and see how they are first. Sad.

I am going to stay on the issue with Lionel until resolution and will update this thread as I work through it.  I purchased 8 of these cars and am not going to just suck it up.  Thanks for post!

The couplers from some gondolas made in China are fair, but have to be put at the end of a train until a fix can be made so they can take more pressure from weight. The couplers release randomly under too much weight.

There is a coupler group problem that has been popping up in the high-end O scale cars in the past 2 years.

Andrew

Good to know.  As I have shared above at this price, the couplers need to work flawlessly, not below the quality of MPC O27 couplers.  Harsh, I KNOW.  If you want to charge a premium price, you need to deliver a premium product.  If Porsches didn't start on a reliable basis, people would not be willing to buy them at that price they charge.   If these cars were $25 each, I wouldn't say a word.

This is an on-going problem with new Lionel rolling stock. I recently received a PS-1 sound car, PS-4 Flats with trailers, Therm-Ice reefer and 8K Hercules and A-B tank cars - all with the same issue. I was able to get NOS 50-ton and 70-ton articulated trucks that have the hidden uncoupler tab and swapped them. The coupler pocket depth is the issue on these new trucks - they're too squared off and are rigid and the coupler shank has no articulation - which is a BIG mistake - not everyone runs 048 plus curves...

Supposedly, Lionel is aware of this issue and is coming up with a solution. I stopped buying their rolling stock for now - getting tired of all these cars not working with my older rolling stock and creating derailments.

Thanks Dave P.  - What you just elaborated supports the conclusions I reached after trying to run and understand the problems with my 8 beauties this weekend.

CRITICAL ISSUES

1.  Coupler pocket configuration/depth

2. The rigid coupler shank.

The locking mechanism on the couplers is just poor sloppy QC.  They will work but none of the components of the mechanism are finely crafted or finished.  Some will work // some will work after a little owner attention // some are just too fubar to ever work.

I will keep saying it, at a $70 to $100 price point, everything should work flawlessly.  Lionel has done it in the past, Atlas does it, MTH has done it.

Detroit,

There was a lot of discussions about the "defective" couplers on the Form 2 months ago, with no resolution. Yes, the couplers are a factory quality control failure, they do not couple to standard cars produced by Lionel in the last couple of years.

I posted details about this issue on the form, as others have. The only fix, if you decide to keep the cars, is to file or cut off part of the knuckle, or replace the trucks and couplers at an additional cost of upwards of $30! Neither are acceptable to the Customer.

If you want to review the discussions, go to:

https://ogrforum.com/...2#153463017273740762

I sent a detailed email to Dave Olsen about the issue and what was causing the couplers inability to connect with other cars. I even sent detailed  photos. If in fact Lionel is going to fix the "defect", they have had pliantly of time to address it to the community, but have not yet done so.

Lionel's mission state is:

"Our mission is to develop, manufacture, market and service the best electric toy trains and accessories in the world within a competitive environment.

Lead the toy train industry with innovative engineering, flawless manufacturing and superior customer service. Employ the best people and inspire teamwork and strong communications in an atmosphere of teamwork, trust, openness and innovation. Expose children to the magic of Lionel trains and sprout interest in the toy train hobby. Work closely with our dealer network and share with them some of the decision making processes for future Lionel products.

Keep the magic of the Lionel tradition living for another 100 years."

Ray

Please see THIS LINK (Click here!) for the thread regarding issues with Lionel's new couplers. Quite enlightening!

Chris

LVHR

Ray - Thank You for additional information - I had not seen that thread.  I too did reach out to Dave and he did offer this first came on the radar with the milk car run.  If Lionel will not fix or replace trucks these cars will be going back.  TY!