MTH Heavy Pacific PFA problem when Quilling Whistle (SPW) is enabled 20-3812-1 and 20-3828-1

Sorry for the shaky video, just trying to get the sequence and sound so you can understand what the problem is.

Again, the way this was invoked, first turn on SPW quilling whistle, and then start the PFA. It's the last sequence, just before rolling out this garbled loud sound plays. If SPW (quilling is not enabled) then the PFA appears to play normally without the bad sound.

This would be something to report to MTH. I have a Railking PS3 engine that I upgraded the sound file with a quilling whistle from another file and I also replaced the standard whistle from that file. Changing that standard whistle caused the same garbled output yous saw at the end of the PFA sequence. After listening to the files, I notice that the upgraded whistle was just ever so slightly shorter and smaller in size. That small area of missing file caused my garbled PFA when the sequence reaches the whistle que, it calls a memory location with nothing in it and plays static.

I'd be curious to know if this affected all of these locomotives or just yours. I'd assume that your engine needs to be reflashed and potentially with a fixed file from MTH.

Propane turbines that came out last fall had a sound file issue too with the PFA.  MTH had to post a updated file on the website. Jon G still had contacts to get that one fixed.

Jim

Moving also the details of the LED lighting related failures on both of these engines found during unboxing showing QC problems to this topic rather than posting against a dealer's advertising post about the engines.

20-3812-1 U.S. Army one had the headlight wiring harness reversed and thus the light did not work from the factory.

I simply used a needle pin to press the locking tab of the internal crimp connectors in the LED side of the socket to extract the wires and then reverse them in the plug to match the wiring harness.

On the 20-3828-1 Rock Island model, the front LED green class lamp was out. Further inspection revealed the ceramic style LED was damaged and missing the actual LED at the tip. Most likely just rough assembly when the LED was installed through the boiler shell and then bent and pushed into the tiny lamp lens housing.

@Vernon Barry posted:

I just checked, MTH has now posted the sound files. I have no idea if they are "fixed" but they weren't there Friday. These are just the 2 examples I had.

20-3812-1 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS

mthtrains.com

20-3828-1 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS

mthtrains.com

Please keep us up to date on this. I have the B&O version on the way. Not sure if it'll have an issue or not, but definitely want to know what happens here.

FWIW, I got 3 of the P5As that shipped in December. All 3 had issues (pantographs and running). I'm glad MTH is still producing product, but quality control seems to be a secondary consideration for now.

@Vernon Barry posted:

Rock Island version also did not fix the sound glitch so it appears that the files posted might be what was shipped- not updated new files.

@Jon G who's the contact doing sound files these days?

The sound engineer is under contract with MTH.  I’ll contact him with the problem.

@Andrew B. posted:

Please keep us up to date on this. I have the B&O version on the way. Not sure if it'll have an issue or not, but definitely want to know what happens here.

FWIW, I got 3 of the P5As that shipped in December. All 3 had issues (pantographs and running). I'm glad MTH is still producing product, but quality control seems to be a secondary consideration for now.

If a person buys a loco and has issues out of the box or even at day 364 still under warranty, and it was purchased from a dealer that does not do repair work, what options does this person have? What did you do with your p5a's? I know that a dealer who cannot repair or replace is supposed to give a full refund(mth warranty states). What a shame to wait on a preorder for aver a year and then left without a loco after receiving a refund.

@jini5 posted:

If a person buys a loco and has issues out of the box or even at day 364 still under warranty, and it was purchased from a dealer that does not do repair work, what options does this person have? What did you do with your p5a's? I know that a dealer who cannot repair or replace is supposed to give a full refund(mth warranty states). What a shame to wait on a preorder for aver a year and then left without a loco after receiving a refund.

I've got a repair guy working on them. I bought them because I want them, not because I want to return them. They'll probably never get done again, so sending them back does no good.

If the dealer doesn’t do repairs, the customer is refunded and if the item has a dollar value over a certain threshold (was $100 at the old location), it is sent back to MTH and the dealer is credited.  The dealer would rather get it back to sell because he can profit from it, so if he insists and the pile of returns gets big enough, they call me to come in and do repairs.  However, whether the original customer is called and resold the product is up to the dealer.  This is not a fast process.  Can take months to accomplish.  If the customer really wants to keep the item, in or out of warranty, it’s in his best interest to find an ASC.

vernon, is there an update on your problem. is this all rockisland models. I am thinking if getting one of these from berwyns.

btw does the whistle steam effect work without activating the quilling feature?

thanks vernon. lets hope mth does just that. maybe I will get the mikado instead. I have two mikados in my collection already and was wanting a pacific wich I do not have.

I like how the steam effect comes directly out the whistle. I assume they have two smoke units. one for the stack smoke and one for the whistle smoke. just basing it off how it is filled.

this is how I wish lionel would do it all the time. this way you know the whistle steam is getting enough fluid in the batting.

keep us posted here if mth does acknowledge the problem and has a fix. thanks again.

thanks vernon, I may contact berwyns about this. just talked with them friday about my online order for a RI rs1 and a caboose. great guys and sevice. wish I lived closer to go in person.

OK, the bad news, I had some time to repeatedly try the above fix on the 2 engines I have as well as trying different files. The edit makes the sound segment playable in ADPCM application on the PC, however, it does not appear to fix the sound in the engine when flashing the file (and yes, I date and time code stamped the files and checked multiple times what I was loading).

I even tried making the segment just a silent segment and even that failed.

After much trial and error, it takes between 10-20+ minutes or more to flash a complete sound file, then further time to cycle the engine, go through a quilling whistle, and then run through the complete PFA, I gave up on the original sound file. I tried using the index edit option and again, this makes the segment then play correctly in ADPCM on the PC, however, when flashed to the engine no change and still causing the horrible loud noise during the last segment of the PFA. So then I tried the option to edit the sound segment and make it silent. That also did not fix the problem. Because the total cycle time (make a change, flash the file, power cycle the engine, start it, play the quilling whistle, then start and go through the complete PFA this is a royal pain in the posterior.
So I just decided to go back to an older 2017 version of the heavy pacific engines Product Search | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS and then choose an older sound file. These engines did not have the steaming whistle function, but using the edit softkey of ADPCM, I was able to add the function. So I have both quilling whistle and steaming whistle, as well as a PFA with no bad sound file segments to invoke.

his is not ideal for everyone and all road names, you might prefer a specific PFA.

Also, I have not yet tried (again this cycle time is a royal pain) to copy segment 241 from an older known to work file into a newer 2022 file with these Heavy Pacifics.

Bottom line, this is a hack, not a fix, and anyone with one of these should be demanding support from MTH on such a broard reaching mistake- let alone one made to an entire summer's release worth of engines.

Don’t want to minimize this but can’t you just turn off the quilling whistle until MTH posts a corrected file?  I understand workarounds are less than ideal but sometimes that is better than getting all exercised while you wait for something to be fixed.  You have people on this thread and reading the forum who are aware and I am sure this will not be ignored.  So, I am sure if the only issue is the file, a corrected file will be developed.

Also your fix seems legitimate to me.  Why is that a hack?  Not trying to argue, just think it seems like a good approach.

@Ray Lombardo posted:

Don’t want to minimize this but can’t you just turn off the quilling whistle until MTH posts a corrected file?  I understand workarounds are less than ideal but sometimes that is better than getting all exercised while you wait for something to be fixed.  You have people on this thread and reading the forum who are aware and I am sure this will not be ignored.  So, I am sure if the only issue is the file, a corrected file will be developed.

I have suggested this as a work around as well, till an updated sound file is posted. Turn off the quilling whistle before starting the PFA sequence, turn it back on when it's over.

Hopefully MTH will update the sound file soon so you can check this off your list Vernon.  I'll just not quill with PFA until they address it.

I've been enjoying the heck out of the MTH Pacifics including quilling the whistle.  They are great models.