1950 773 question

I know I've seen this too.  I'm pretty sure it's just an indentation from the mold.  If this loco were made today, everyone would probably be screaming about it.  Congratulations, you have one of the all-time greats.  Enjoy!!

This blemish is caused by the mold [the master die] itself, which, for some unbeknownst reason, is the exact spot where LIONEL determined that one of the locating pins to close the two halves of the mold together would be placed.

Duh.

In later years,  LIONEL MPC/LTI polished and altered the mold so this unsightly mark would no longer be visible.  BTW:  You'll find this unusual circle mark on pre war 700E's & 763Es as well.  Interestingly, depending on who was painting at the factory at the time will determine how pronounced the mark is. Some painters  "laid it on heavy" while spraying, which had a tendency to hide the mark somewhat, while other workers had a lighter touch, so in some instances the mark may be more visible than others.

When we restore 773's we like to sand down this mark as much as we can, but it's not always possible to eliminate it entirely. In any event, it's nothing to worry about, but just another anomaly in the storied production of LIONEL Corporation era manufacturing.

Best Regards to all,

Len Carparelli

L & L  Model Train Restoration Co.

Would it be acceptable to fill the hole with automotive body filler? That question might provoke outrage but I'll ask it anyway. If it were mine, I would leave it as original.

MELGAR

MELGAR it's your train, so you have to answer that question for yourself.  The 773 is a unique beast.  It's neither a toy train nor a detailed scale model, and at the same time it's a little of both.  The best examples run as well as some trains that were marketed as scale models.  You could fill in that divot and add a bunch of detail parts from the 700E.  Weather it to complete the picture.  Or you could put it in front of a 773T tender and an operating cattle car, and run it on O31 tubular track, enjoying the puffing smoke and nostalgic smell of ozone.  Both approaches are equally valid.

The indentation doesn't bother me personally because I think of it as a toy train, hands down the best-running postwar steam loco.  I guess I'm not a scale modeler.  I just wish it were a little smaller, so that it looked better with traditional rolling stock and Plasticville buildings!

I wouldn't fill it, as you'll then have to repaint the section where it was filled, and chances are it will not exactly match the lower portion, which contains the '773" number. If you painted the entire engineer cab section, you'd need to re-stamp the number.

I certainly would  leave the '773' rubber stamping intact, and so, I vote for 'leave it as is'.

The 773 is a valuable engine. Any modification will adversely impact its value, particularly if it is in excellent or better condition..

Len Carparelli

L & L Model Train Restoration Co.

Ted S,

I don't own one but just was curious about what Len would think of doing it on a restoration. In my opinion, it's a significant antique "Made in USA" by Lionel. If I were having one restored, I would want it as close to original as possible - including the hole.

MELGAR

I had all intentions of leaving it original, but it did have a bent can roof which is bent back now and I did purchase one of Dennis Waldron's high stack motors.

Anxious to run it this Christmas.

How do you get the high stack motor and will it work in the later Hudsons- 783, 1990 700 e, etc?

@petrifiedagg posted:

How do you get the high stack motor and will it work in the later Hudsons- 783, 1990 700 e, etc?

I *believe* that the newer Hudsons had the high stack, albeit a newer one.  The one I bought from Dennis was supposedly a rare post war version.

I hope I have this right. 

@petrifiedagg posted:

How do you get the high stack motor and will it work in the later Hudsons- 783, 1990 700 e, etc?

They’re already in the “ newer” scale & semi scale Hudsons, as well as other models too...Mohawks, CV Hudsons, etc....high stack swaps are for prewar/postwar models.....and to answer your other question: how many do you want?...I can sell them by the bushel, or by the pound, your choice....😉

Pat

Len:  "I certainly would  leave the '773' rubber stamping intact, and so, I vote for 'leave it as is'.   The 773 is a valuable engine. Any modification will adversely impact its value, particularly if it is in excellent or better condition."

Wiser words were never spoken.  I'm lucky to own a 1950 773 & a 1964 773.  They're in great condition; even if they weren't, I wouldn't "restore" them.  NOOOOOOOO way.

As an aside, I'm assuming Lionel made fewer 773s in 1950 than, say, a 2046 or other more common locomotive? 

My 763e has this mark. I really never paid much attention to it until now.

It is the same on the 700e, so strictly original.

I have said many times:

"Only restore an engine if it needs restoring." 

You'd all be surprised at the amount of work I turn down because I advise my clients never  to restore an engine in excellent or better condition - even if it has a few marks, dings or scratches. 

My advice: If you want a perfect engine, find an old basket case that's not broken, but well used - in "fair' or "poor" condition - or, even better - one that's been sloppily repainted - and that's the kind of engine we like to bring back to life here at L & L.

In regard to other topics:

Yes, you'll find that circular mark on all pre- & post war Hudsons!

Also: all  those high-stack motors will work on postwar engines. The ones Dennis Waldron has are all new old stock [NOS] originals which I believe he purchased from Madison Hardware. They are not after-market motors but were actually manufactured by the Lionel Corporation when the engineering staff realized how woefully underpowered their flagship 773 loco was in 1950. I think the manufacturing of these motors dates to either 1950, or the next year, 1951. As we all know the 773 was dropped from the line after one year and only returned in 1964.

I don't know too much about the later-issue high-stack motors, but I'll assume from both an electrical and mechanical standpoint they will surely increase the pulling power much more than your stock, 1950 or 1964 773 motors..

The high-stack motor is a welcome upgrade to your Hudson loco if you want to operate on any decent sized layout.  When I had my layout , my 773 was able to pull 24 freight cars  with the high stack motor installed. Without it, less than 10. And grades? Trestles? Fuhhhgeddaboudit!

Best regards to all,

Len Carparelli

L & L  MTC

www.lencarparelli.com

Since this topic has sort of drifted to high stack vs stock,  What's the way to tell the difference between the two? 

@Dan65train posted:

Since this topic has sort of drifted to high stack vs stock,  What's the way to tell the difference between the two? 

Original motor is on top.

Thank for the picture Larry.

@Larry Mullen posted:

Original motor is on top.

 

 

If the motor in the bottom of the picture is the one you bought from Dennis Waldron, then it is not a 50’s vintage “ original high stack” ...the motor pictured has caps on the brushes, and a lamp for fire box glow.....those are characteristics of an LTI vintage motor.....LTI put caps across the motor brush leads in an attempt to filter out “motor noise” for the earliest railsounds systems......I’m talking about electrical noise that would be picked up by the RS system and transmitted through the speaker....not the mechanical noises these motors make,....there ain’t no fixing that, but why would you??....that’s part of the charm ...no??.....

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

If the motor in the bottom of the picture is the one you bought from Dennis Waldron, then it is not a 50’s vintage “ original high stack” ...the motor pictured has caps on the brushes, and a lamp for fire box glow.....those are characteristics of an LTI vintage motor.....LTI put caps across the motor brush leads in an attempt to filter out “motor noise” for the earliest railsounds systems......I’m talking about electrical noise that would be picked up by the RS system and transmitted through the speaker....not the mechanical noises these motors make,....there ain’t no fixing that, but why would you??....that’s part of the charm ...no??.....

Pat

Good catch!  No it's not the original one that I purchased from Dennis as that one is in my 773 now.  Just wanted to give Dan an idea of the difference.

@Larry Mullen posted:

Good catch!  No it's not the original one that I purchased from Dennis as that one is in my 773 now.  Just wanted to give Dan an idea of the difference.

Ahh,...ok...just didn’t want you thinking the motor pictured was a early high stack ( service dept part) motor .......no harm no foul though, the later motors will pretty much bolt right in place of prewar 763’s 700’s and postwar 773....

Pat