Hi all,
My spare 1976 Southern Crescent Limited 8702 locomotive is squealing once warmed up.
The video below explains everything and you can hear the squealing.
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A good friend of mine told me that some of these were made to too tight of a tolerance on the armature shaft. The NOS one I picked up a couple of years back did not squeal, but was very stiff. The squeal on yours sounds like a dry armature shaft (I have heard this before). Check to make sure that both ends of the shaft are lubed (light oil) as well as the idler shaft, axles etc.
@RAK posted:A good friend of mine told me that some of these were made to too tight of a tolerance on the armature shaft. The NOS one I picked up a couple of years back did not squeal, but was very stiff. The squeal on yours sounds like a dry armature shaft (I have heard this before). Check to make sure that both ends of the shaft are lubed (light oil) as well as the idler shaft, axles etc.
RAK, you were spot on! Was the main shaft. Drop of oil and it's running beautifully!
OUTSTANDING! Glad to help!
I heard a different story, that because of tolerances the 8702 Crescents had a problem holding oil, and they would start squawking again after a very short time.
To address the issue, when Lionel released the 8801 Blue Comet (next loco in that series), they added a metal ferrule in the center of the brushplate to help align the armature shaft and retain oil. The part number for the ferrule is 8801-77 and it can be purchased on eBay. Sometimes the whole brushplate can be found for sale. I've seen that some Blue Comets DO have a bearing there, and I've also heard of folks making their own out of rivets, brass tubing, etc., and pressing them in. However... Lionel made generations of spur-gear mechanisms between 1936 and 1975 that DIDN'T use a metal bearing where the armature shaft penetrates the brushplate. So given a good choice of materials it's not strictly necessary.
I was only 10 years old when these locos came out, and my family couldn't afford one! Perhaps Todd @PaperTRW or someone else with inside knowledge can tell us what really happened. Good topic!
@Ted S posted:I heard a different story, that because of tolerances the 8702 Crescents had a problem holding oil, and they would start squawking again after a very short time.
To address the issue, when Lionel released the 8801 Blue Comet (next loco in that series), they added a metal ferrule in the center of the brushplate to help align the armature shaft and retain oil. The part number for the ferrule is 8801-77 and it can be purchased on eBay. Sometimes the whole brushplate can be found for sale. I've seen that some Blue Comets DO have a bearing there, and I've also heard of folks making their own out of rivets, brass tubing, etc., and pressing them in. However... Lionel made generations of spur-gear mechanisms between 1936 and 1975 that DIDN'T use a metal bearing where the armature shaft penetrates the brushplate. So given a good choice of materials it's not strictly necessary.
I was only 10 years old when these locos came out, and my family couldn't afford one! Perhaps Todd @PaperTRW or someone else with inside knowledge can tell us what really happened. Good topic!
Awesome information to have!
Being a novice, where does the part go you mentioned? I see it on eBay for a whopping $1 haha. Here's my train, with her shirt her off...
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@Stoogesman posted:..where does the part go you mentioned?
Is this the metal ferrule you're referring to?
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Another I found on eBay doesn't seem to have that metal piece.
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My experience with the fiber brush plates that don’t have a metal bushing of any sort is that they will require frequent oiling, depending on run time, and that with regular oiling, the time between “oilings” will gradually increase. Maybe the fiber material retains some of that oil over time; or perhaps the fiber material hardens for some reason.
I have added small Oilite bushings I got from McMaster Carr - they work great, but they are a bit tricky because of the limited space between the brush tubes - may require a bit of filing to fit without shorting to either brush tube, especially if they have a flange. You also have to be very careful of the clearance between the bearing and the top of the commutator - not much space there! A bit of JB Weld keeps everything securely in place.
George
@GeoPeg posted:My experience with the fiber brush plates that don’t have a metal bushing of any sort is that they will require frequent oiling, depending on run time, and that with regular oiling, the time between “oilings” will gradually increase. Maybe the fiber material retains some of that oil over time; or perhaps the fiber material hardens for some reason.
I have added small Oilite bushings I got from McMaster Carr - they work great, but they are a bit tricky because of the limited space between the brush tubes - may require a bit of filing to fit without shorting to either brush tube, especially if they have a flange. You also have to be very careful of the clearance between the bearing and the top of the commutator - not much space there! A bit of JB Weld keeps everything securely in place.
George
I only run the train during the Christmas season, so a drop of oil a year should keep the squeak doctor at bay.
@Stoogesman posted:I only run the train during the Christmas season, so a drop of oil a year should keep the squeak doctor at bay.
If you get a habitual squeaker, jump up to a little thicker oil,….a drop of motor oil from your garage will do just fine.
Pat
@harmonyards posted:If you get a habitual squeaker, jump up to a little thicker oil,….a drop of motor oil from your garage will do just fine.
Pat
That was next question!
I have a little bit of Lionel oil left but was wondering what else would suffice. I'm assuming good old fashioned 3-1 oil would work well for lubing up my locomotives?
@Stoogesman posted:That was next question!
I have a little bit of Lionel oil left but was wondering what else would suffice. I'm assuming good old fashioned 3-1 oil would work well for lubing up my locomotives?
I’m personally not a fan of 3-1 …..keep that crap for door hinges,…😉…whatever spare motor oil you got in the garage will work great,…..5W-30, 10W-30, whatever….use a toothpick and put a drop on the motor shafts …..
Pat
Pat: Would a "dab" of Red "N" Tacky grease work better, as it would not dissipate as quickly as oil???
Peter.....Buco Australia.
@Buco posted:Pat: Would a "dab" of Red "N" Tacky grease work better, as it would not dissipate as quickly as oil???
Peter.....Buco Australia.
Grease won’t migrate like oil does. Im old school Peter, you grease gears, and oil shafts. ……I know a lot of you guys are fans of Red-N-Nasty, but I never liked that product since it was first introduced to me from the Lucas rep many moons ago!….but no harm, no foul, everyone’s got their own preferences……
Pat
Thank you Pat....food for thought!!
Peter.....Buco Australia
