2 questions: Chatter with Lionel 6-8264 and tips to clean wheels on vintage rolling stock

The 8264 CP Snowplow was the first "motor unit" released in the modern era. I purchased one when they came out, and have had others pass though my hands. I have most of the other Modern era ones too.

Unfortunately, they did not get everything 100 percent correct.
One problem was the posts for the brush plate.
The locomotives I've handled had washers inserted underneath the brush plate to raise it up slightly. The posts were a bit too short.

As Uberstationmeister wrote, the postwar ones were noisy, as are the modern era ones.

The diagram, from the Lionel (MPC) factory service manual is attached.



 

I will use small flat screwdriver to remove the thick gunk then use a Q tip and tuner spray or Goof Off and clean the greasy residual gunk off. I then wire brush with my Dremel to shine them up. This will make your fingertips nice and black so I try to wear disposable gloves if you can remember.

Not much you can do with the Lionel motorized units thats the nature of them.

franktrain

To clean wheels I hold a #18 Xacto blade/knife against the wheel and rotate it. This removes the heavy deposits.
Then I follow up with a Qtip wet with mineral spirits. Wait a bit, and wipe with a dry qtip.

It is very rare for me to use a wire wheel, but once in a while I do.

Thanks for the advice on both of my questions. I'll try the methods of cleaning the wheels without the Dremel tool.

As to the CP Snowplow, my unit has the washers, and this just makes reattaching the brush plate even more fun! So here's a follow up question: if the chatter is inevitable with this generation of that motorized unit, what about the truly modern issues by Lionel, such as the ones in the 2016 Signature Edition catalog? The basic body of the unit seems very similar to the earlier units, but besides having rotary blades and operable under Command Control, these are described as having an "upgraded maintenance free can motor."  Any experience with these? Chatter gone? I'm considering replacing the CP Snowplow with one of the modern issues. 

Thanks,

Pags

With proper lubrication there should be very little chatter. They require more frequent lubing than most other locos. Be sure to get the lower armature bearing and axle bearings. 

OK, based upon the advice on the snowplow unit, I decided to open up this unit again.  In previous lube experiences, I noticed there was nothing below the armature - no washer or ball bearings.  In the schematic that C.W. posted, it shows an Armature Spacer Washer (#23; 360-122), but there is nothing there on my unit.  I attached a photo of the recess where I believe it should be.  I also included the bottom of the armature.  Should the washer be in the recess? If so, would that make a difference?

Thanks again,

Michael

There should be a thrust bearing mounted at the bottom of the chassis, part #14 on the drawing.
I don't know what function washer #23 would serve.  I could not say whether the engines I've had apart had that washer or not.

Hello MICHAEL PAGS..........

It does look like your are MISSING an #35 bearing (spacer) P/N # 8776-360 in that area and surprised that the gear teeth isn't chewed up yet !!!  How did you managed that?

Tiffany

The #35 bearing (spacer) is there. It is black. The motor cannot run without it.

Tiffany and CW,

Thanks for the continued help, but I must admit I am a bit confused. The schematic is very helpful, but I am not certain how certain pieces align.

In a previous post, I included a photo of the armature from the Snowplow.  I did not remove anything from the shaft. Note that there is absolutely nothing on the shaft as it sits in the chassis.   Should there be anything on the shaft as it sits in the chassis, such as the thrust bearing (part #14) and perhaps the armature spacer washer (part # 23)?  Is the spacer (part #35) related to the collector and not the armature shaft?

Thanks again,

Michael

The #14 thrust washer is a small nylon stud that is mounted on the die cast chassis, the end of the armature rests against it. It is usually difficult to see, being that it is at the bottom of the well for the armature and worm wheel, and is usually covered with grease.
Part #35 is the black plastic ring (bearing) that is mounted in the die cast chassis, at the top surface. Should the worm gear ever need changing, it has to be removed to get the gear out.

A washer on the lower portion of the shaft would serve no purpose, and depending on how the armature is wound, could even cause damage if the windings stick past the collar that is around the armature shaft.

The Lionel service manuals, even the postwar one, have errors here and there. I assume that #23 washer is an error.
The #50 style gang cars do not have that #14 thrust bearing stud, and would have pieces on the lower armature shaft to act as thrust bearings. Maybe the artist got them confused.

CW,

Thanks again for your continued suggestions and information.  Here's the latest (and final?) chapter on this:

I also have a #50 Gang Car and have been inside of it several times. I know there are various items along the armature shaft on that unit and when I did not see anything on the Snowplow, I wondered if that contributed to the chatter.  It appears that are several versions of this motorized unit (according to Greenberg's Repair and Operating Manual for Lionel Trains) and I probably have a version that does not have anything along the armature shaft.  So I decided to apply lots of grease (Red "N" Tacky #2), more than I ever did before, to the gears to see if that made a difference.  Some better, but not what I hoped for. 

I think I have done all that is possible for this little guy.  I can certainly live with the chatter, but may still spring for a recent Lionel issue with the rotary blade and command control.  Although I do have a CP line on my layout, the snowplow will be in a Christmas scene, so the North Pole Central unit might look nice in that scene.

Thanks again,

Michael