2, Rail, or 3 Rail?

  The most common O train is Lionel on 3-RAIL, O gauge (measurement between the outer rails), and normally 1:48 is true O scale, but some do exist in 1:43, 1:45, 1:50's, down to 1:64(S scale, American Flyer). So how exacting is your modeling going to be? There are some wiring advantages to 3 rail.

 Tubular Lionel 0-27 (=approx. 27"dia) is/was(?) the most common. It is the metal track you saw in most kids sets.

 Full O is more popular with the traditional modeling "Hi-rail" folks. A little bigger dia. 31", its made of  thicker metal, bigger track pins, & taller off the floor. ("rail code" is how tall just a rail is, no ties)

 Fastrack is the modern Lionel "plastic roadbed" track. "Roadbed track looks like it has a "gravel bed" under it. It just snaps together, & pretty much stays that way.

 Just cause its plastic doesn't make it bad. Good stuff.

MTH makes a similar track.

RMT makes a plastic tie track I like that snaps together too.   

Wood ties, or looks real, flex track? GarGraves most popular forever, Atlas, MTH are the upstarts.

2 rail is were you will find more exacting standards on scale modeling.

 Few "toys" there, just models

What do you have so far? Anything?

How about dreams?

Welcome aboard Calvin.  You've come to the right place for answers.  Happy railroading!  

3 rail is more common.  Choices in train manufacturers include Lionel, MTH, Williams/Bachmann, RMT.  There is lots of used equipment out there in an affordable market.  Also, there are other train manufacturers, but they are more expensive and if you are just starting out may not be the right choice just now.  

Lionel is 3 rail which is more common, Bob S said it all to the 3 rail makers.

If your looking for something more different and scale like try On3 which Bachman and few others make but you can get true scale most prevalent with the logging and freight equipment

Welcome to the hobby

Calvin,

Before you start buying, think a little about what you like about real trains.     For example, what era, 1950s, 1930s, 2000s, appeals to you most.   If  you are going to do some modeling, you then focus on models from the era you like.    

You can also get more specific, and think about what railroad is your favorite, NS, CSX, or fallen flags like NKP, B&O, PRR and focus on buying models of equipment that ran on that RR.    This leads to do some historical research to learn some of this information.

On the other hand, if your thinking is they you just want to collect some stuff, do some research on what is collectible and what is not.   Even very plain plain toy trains can be collectible if they are rare.   On the other hand, in 3 rail, much of the stuff made was made in very large quantities and is not valuable as a collectible.    However, if you like it and want to collect the not so rare stuff, it can be a lot cheaper hobby.    As a collector you need to do a little research to find out what the value/price of various things should be.   Many sellers will talk about how rare a piece, but they may be more salesman, than subject expert.

Welcome and have fun.

Since you are just starting out, you better do a lot of research in what YOU like to do in this hobby and match your desires with what is available in the market.

For example, I like all sorts of Steam locos of all road names and foreign locos too! as a result I was stuck into going in 3R scale with "the not very pretty in my eyes" three rail track. If I have my choices of all the locos that I like in 2R scale, then I'd be in 2R now...

BTW, MTH does build some extra nice locos that can run on 2R and 3R, check it out. Also, Sunset models and Atlas make some great scale stuff....you see, you have a lot of home work to do....

Be careful, changing from 2R to 3R or vise verse is very expensive later on!

Welcome Calvin. 3-rail is by far the most popular. A lot more choices at a lower cost.

Calvin,

        See if there is a club in your area that has both 2 rail and 3 rail so you can compare the two for yourself. My club the Black Diamond in Bethlehem PA has both so if you are ever in the area on a Tuesday night stop by.

                                     bdsme.org

        in a nut shell 3 rail can be had in Traditional Size (compressed size, Rail King, Lionmaster etc) and Scale (true 1/48). 2 Rail is all scale. 3 Rail wiring is less complicated as it is AC, 2 rail is DC. Some would say 3 rail is more economical (scale stuff is expensive). 2 rail is more expensive in general due to less volume produced. 

         Another thing you can do is go through the forums available here. You already know where the 3 Rail forum is but there is a 3 Rail Scale forum and a 2 Rail forum available. Go through them for a taste of what each is about.

         God luck it is a great hobby

JohnB

You might also read 2-3 of the better magazines that cater to O scale, visit layouts when possible to see what you like and dislike, attend a few meets/shows/swap meets to see what's really available (gobs of stuff on the secondary markets), and get a 1st hand education as to the realities of availability and economics.  Otherwise, you'll get a lot of myths tossed at you.

You also might want to give some thought as to what your objectives are vs. time vs. space vs. cost.  The possibilities that are available to you are quite lengthy and diverse.  I might caution that jumping in, buying everything, etc. generally leads to overload and later selling off stuff, etc.  Knowing where you are going and having gained information 1st hand will benefit you.

Ditto & Ditto Ditto!

WOW!  Lots of complicated stuff being offered.  Heck, buy a train, have fun!  Work it out from there.  Don't be afraid.  Life is too short to gather and accumulate a lifetime of knowledge before you even have any fun at this.  Sure, you'll make some mistakes, and probably buy something you won't like later.   We all do it.  Learn from these errors, and move on to what pleases you.  Starter sets will help you to begin.  This should be fun for you, and your children.  Enjoy.  Bob S.

This question seems to come up a lot. Most often it's the amount of space you have and the type of layout you want as far as running charachteristics that will decide for you. O Scale 2 rail takes up some real estate as far as minimum curves. But if your doing a switching layout it will work in any space. If you want big time railroading as far as operations. You need a large space or perhaps a smaller scale. More can be done in O 3 rail. They may not look great doing it but large a scale steamers can do a 180 in a 7 ft. space.

 it's best to decide what you want as far as operations and features of the layout and see what will fit in the space you have. To me the layout comes first. That will keep you involved enough building it. You will never finish a layout you don't enjoy working on. The cost of the trains themselves shouldn't factor in to much. You don't need to buy the trains      you think you need all at once. Technology changes so quick at times it's best to buy as you go along. 

Calvin - It is much  more than a decision between 2 vs 3 rail.  The first factor that comes in is the time - money - skill - space issue.  The more time and skill you have the less money you need.  What are your modeling skills and how do you want to develop them.  What are your goals, exact modeling or just having relaxing fun.  Some of us have large goals and not enough time, we start building a very large layout but don't have the time or energy to finish it.  What do you enjoy doing, running trains or building a scene.  Your enjoyment of the hobby may change over time.

As for track systems and scale the hobby has many segments.

- Lionel 0-27  -  This is traditional Lionel, not scale and toy like.  Usually no command operation.  Large used market.  Many enjoy for the tradition, simplicity and easy fun.

- Lionel Fast Track and MTH Real Track  -  Plastic road bed sectional track.  Easy to get started.  This is the track that comes with starter sets from Lionel and MTH.  Atlas, RMT, and Williams also have their starter track systems.  Also, can be noisy.

- Gargraves, Ross, and Atlas - More realistic looking, more options, must be ballasted to look good.  Can even run some scale wheels if not too many switches.

- MTH Scale Trax - Looks even better, almost 2 rail like, has a narrow blade 3rd rail and low profile.  Limited selection, more work to create a layout and must be ballasted to look good.

- 2 rail track - best looking / most prototypical.  Limited choices / selection.  May need to modify some 3 rail rolling stock to 2 rail.  Generally more detailed thus more expensive.  A lot of brass is here.  Requires more room to operate / wider curves.  You may even get into hand laying track and switches. Track work must be almost perfect be cause of shorter wheel flanges.

Proto 48 - Where everything is perfectly 1:48. Even smaller wheel flanges.  A very small segment in the hobby.

Also, it helps with the budget to pick a modeling era and limit the number of railroads you collect.  Most of us don't have unlimited space and budget.

This is a quick summary, look around at the different forums here, such as the 2-rail and 3-rail scale.  Also, look at the command systems DCC, DCS, and Legacy.  The bigger the layout the more command helps with operation.

Look at your space, time, budget, and hobby goals to decide what you want to do.  Look at others layouts to see what you like.  This hobby can be enjoyed at a very inexpensive level or it can get expensive real quick.

Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

Dan

Welcome to the forum CALVIN.  As others have said 3 rail is the most common.  Whatever manufacturer you like, enjoy the products that they offer.  Don't be afraid to try another manufacturers products.  Lots of good stuff out there, don't try and buy it all at once.  Enjoy the hobby and if you have problems, this forum here will help you iron them out.

Calvin,

Some great info for you above.  I see you live only an hour away from York, PA.  Starting this Thursday at noon and going through 2 pm Saturday is the biggest O gauge train meet in the world (some say, anyway).  You can attend the meet by becoming a Train Collectors Association member at the door ($50/year plus $20 meet fee which I think is a good deal for what you get, especially if you live near York), or see if you know a TCA member and attend as a guest ($12 I think).  Either way, I would highly recommend you going because you can learn a lot about the hobby and talk to lots of people to find out what works best for you.

Calvin, 2 rail scale engines are more prototypically correct as far as wheel distances

and some detail are concerned.  They also take much large curves than an equivalent 3 rail engine.  Also wiring is more difficult, especially for reverse loops ( will let someone more familiar with wiring explain this).  Not a problem in 3 rail.

Good luck.  if you have the room and deeper pockets I would then consider 2 rail scale.

Do a search on this subject.  There was a great thread not long ago. 

Calvin......since you're just starting out I would recommend buying a 3-rail set, even used off of E-bay is great.......then see if you want to move on from there.......

While many offer excellent advice which is well intended it might be overwhelming and confusing.... so start off with a small investment and play it by ear.....

Welcome aboard!!

Welcome Calvin,

Good posting, when I returned to the hobby in 1992 I considered 2 Rail Scale and 3 Rail(Hi-Rail) to model. I had a Lionel train set layout from 1955-1963 while in grade school, took apart the layout and stored everything until 1992.

I considered 2 Rail Scale in 1992, since the Lionel items I had were limited, the determining factor in choosing 3-Rail over 2-Rail was product availability, the nearest hobby shops, 2, that I remember were in Chicago.

Upon choosing 3-Rail, I use Gargrave Phantom tinplate rail, the center rail is blackened, this rail has wooden ties is easy to bend and shape, I use a Dremel tool to square up the ends of the bent track at adjacent track ends. Also 3-Rail is easy to wire, the outside rails are common(negative) and center rail(positive), using this tracks and Gargrave and Ross switches, crossings(22.5 and 45 Degree) and wyes there is continuity through the total layout, one only to wire the center rail using toggle switches at a control panel, note all switches,crossings and wyes have no continuity of the center rails, you will have to wire jumpers.

The vast majority of my cars are Weaver and AtlasO, scale size, with 3-Rail trucks small variety of engines(diesel and steam) are MTH, Weaver, AtlasO and Williams, diesels either scale or very close to scale. 

Hope this helps in your determination, if I were starting today, I would have given O Scale more consideration.

All good advice here, Calvin, welcome aboard. I found that looking through this forum and checking out member's Youtube links gives a great feel for what you might prefer.

I switched to 3 rail O scale because of selection of products and space requirements.I also have a liking for the old tinplate trains that run on 3-rail. 

3 rail models have the compromises that will fit the tighter track curves into the kind of space most people can manage. 2 rail O scale models of the large American trains will eat up a full basement and then some with the proper curves they need to operate. Have fun!

Calvin welcome to the forum! before i would buy anything i would advise you to look on this forum and see some of the layout pictures posted. Erik C Lindgrin and John Sethian post some amazing pics of 2 rail layouts. go to Mercer Junction and see some of Dave's workmanship in 3 rail as well as many others. forgetting anything about wiring availability size of space and pricing see what appeals to you better. 2 rail or 3 rail. remember its your hobby and its for YOU AND YOU ALONE to have fun with it.

i have been in 3 rail scale as well as 2 rail if you want prototypical appearance 2 rail is the answer. for availabilty depending on the era they are about equal. wiring is not much different except for reverse curves which a $30. part will fix on the 2 rail. most items that are made by Atlas can be had at the same price in 2 rail or 3rail cars are $5. more. there are 2 rail shows in many parts of the country where used 2 rail is sold and there are some great bargains avail. when it comes to space when you can run a large locomotive on 072(6 foot circle) it doesn't look prototypical because of the overhang. full length passenger cars also have the same problem. if you have a small space then small locomotives and cars will look the best no matter if 2 or 3 rail.

if you just want to run trains and prototypical appearance  is not that important to you or if you only have a small space 3 rail might be the answer. for a little more info go to o scale trains magazine website and they have a book or a pdf download for a o scale primer this would be a great start for you.

lastly remember this is your hobby have fun with it do what makes you happy!!!!!!!!!

Calvin, I looked back at your previous posts. You inherited two Lionel sets from your father.  You need to get those setup and operating, even if on the floor. You will learn a lot just doing that.  On a side note 3 rail trains won't work on 2 rail track and vice versa. 

Dan

Great advice offered here.  Buy a new or used train and run it have fun.

You do not have to be a "modeler" to have a blast you can be an "operator". If an engine or piece of rolling stock meets your eye, buy it and watch it run around the layout. 

Layouts posted on this forum are beautiful and very skilled folks put a lot of time, effort and treasure in their layouts and they are pleasure to admire.

Have fun

Brent

I would say look at the track, and choose the track that you find most aesthetically pleasing.  Most find the three rail track quite attractive, although some of that is nostalgia.

If you should prefer the more prototypical look of 2-rail, then choose that.  The other obstacles discussed above become trivial if you really don't care for the look of 3-rail track.

I am intrigued by the idea that there are locomotives available in 3-rail that are not available in 2-rail.  The only one I can think of right now is the Beep, and I am not even sure what that is.  As for space, the reason 3-rail uses tighter curves is not the center rail, but rather the inaccuracies built in to the running gear and underbodies.

Welcome to the hobby Calvin. Dan's advice and assessment of the track offerings is right on the money.

Look at your space, time, budget, and hobby goals to decide what you want to do.  Look at others layouts to see what you like.  This hobby can be enjoyed at a very inexpensive level or it can get expensive real quick.

Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

Dan

There are a lot of choices as others have pointed out, and a lot of what you decide is going to be based on what you want out of the hobby. If you are into scale fidelity and have a lot of space (scale whether 3 rail or 2 rail, is pretty space consuming, usually assumes larger radius curves and so forth), then you have the choice of 3 rail scale or 2 rail scale. 2 rail is obviously more true to prototype. The downside of 2 rail is outside of MTH's offerings, 2 rail uses DCC command control, which isn't quite as rich as PS2/3 or Legacy is in 3 rail. 2 rail scale also tends to be a smaller market, so if you are looking for certain road names and such, you may be out of luck (or have to repaint and decal units).

If you aren't into scale fidelity then your range of options kind of explodes, because then in the 3 rail world you have choices of semi scale, and the true toy train stuff (like RMT's offerings). With the non scale the equipment also tends to run in much narrower curves, so if you have limited space, it may be a better option (small scale engines and rolling stock can usually run in smaller diameter curves, too). 

The other choice is whether you want to run conventionally (ie push the button on the transformer to change directior), and change the physical setting on the transformer, or command control that allows operating the engine directly from a remote control, which has much better speed control and sound and such compared to conventional. Command control is available on scale or semi scale equipment, so you aren't limited with that to using scale equipment only by any means. 

Besides the articles in the various O gauge magazines like the one this forum is associated with, there also are books available, either print or digital, that are aimed at people coming into the hobby, that might help clarify things for you. It is a blessing that there is so much available, but it also is a curse when trying to figure it all out.

Hello Calvin • Lionel 3-Rail and American Flyer S Gauge, (2-rail) are the most popular because of availability, & affordable price structures.  

     This video will give you an understanding of Scale, Two Rail.

Take a look, it may give you some ideas, but 2-rail scale is expensive. Gary, Good Luck