2016 S Gauge SD70s are in - Pictures & Video

I hope this means the FlyerChief Northerns are close to being in also.

Bill

I have a few of them on order too, and while I am excited to get them, Im ok with a bit of a time split between the two big ticket items in this catalog.  

Seems pretty consistent over the past few years that the majority of the Flyer items are slated for late year production.  

I have taken a pass on most of the "traditional" stuff over the years, but I just love the Northerns.  

I am really hopping for some new tooling legacy steam soon (or a SD40-2 of corse).  It will be interesting to see what this newly tooled "traditional" fright car is.  

Intresting to note that the UP 8444 SD70ACe is listed as sold out with Ro. I can only imagine there will be a lot of people trying to run that one with their challengers and too big of a boys.   

Ben 

NotInWI posted:

 It will be interesting to see what this newly tooled "traditional" fright car is.  

Fright car?  Traditional or not... Not another zombie car!!??   Maybe vampires this time around...

Rusty

Well Ryan K said the car should have "potential" for you scale guys...rivets will make that zombie a little less scary! 

Ben

Mark

In the S Gaugian interview that RH Bill did with Lionel's Ryan K he informed that there is a newly tooled fright car for 2017. It was described as being part of the "traditional" line and not scale in nature. Ryan did say the scale guys would likely see potential in it.  It was not revealed what the car is however.  

Ben  

First impressions - they look good, but lack the gloss finish that the first run heritage units had.  I'm not sure how I feel about that. More of a consistency issue than a preference.

I also got the UP 8444 but that has to get wrapped up and put under the tree.

Ben

It would be nice to have them all just to have them, but I can't justify that either.  It's pretty ridiculous when I think about it, all these SD and ES locos and no real selection of rolling stock to go with it....and here I bought another two of them. 

We have a sickness....

Ben

Mark forced my hand on a short video....let's see if it works. 

Ben

In the next Roundhouse column in the S Gaugian I have discuss putting together a consist of more modern rolling stock for these diesels and where to get them.

Seems that would be a lot of "Des Plains Hobbies, Des Plains Hobbies and oh ya...Des Plains Hobbies". With a litttle Cylindrical Hopper thrown in too....

I look forward to the article. 

Ben 

Only one Des Plains Hobbies unit.  That one was difficult to make work.  Their stuff is mostly scale and the article is about hi-rail.  American Models and Flyonel is the key.

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Only one Des Plains Hobbies unit.  That one was difficult to make work.  Their stuff is mostly scale and the article is about hi-rail.  American Models and Flyonel is the key.

Only some of the earlier cars you have to specify Scale or Hirail when ordering/buying.

Most, if not all of the DesPlaines modern (even though most of these cars would be near the end of their service life by now...) cars are equipped with Hirail wheelsets and Flyer compatible couplers straight out of the box.  Scale wheels are in the box, Kadees are customer responsibility.  It's up to the individual as to whether or not to convert them.

Before:

After:

And they do make a fine looking train, regardless.  DesPlaines, AM and a Lionel/Flyer cylindrical hopper waaaaay in the back.:

And they will do R20, even with scale wheels and Kadees.  Although not very happy about it:

Prototype-wise, AM's modern selection, like the DesPlaines cars, is also pretty long in the tooth.  All Lionel had to offer is the cylindrical hopper (a 60 year old car by now) the oversized spine cars from way back and the waffle side boxcar of which there were only 3 prototype road 40 footers and all are long gone. 

Rusty

Don't forget their inter modal well cars and coal porter hoppers.  I don't know the time frame for the prototype but I think both are still out there in the real world. 

Ben. 

Mark, I have a few of them and I will pull them out and snap some pictures for you.  

And I agree about Des Plains web site, love their products, love the store...useless website.  

Ben

Mark,

Des Plaines has sales every now and then - IIRC usually on weekends and about 20 percent off.  I'm not sure if they follow any set schedule, but if you are not in a hurry, you can keep checking the website.

Mike A.

Ron's sales seem to be getting fewer and more targeted to a specific product or manufacturer.  I don't even recall his usual "I want your tax refund" sale this past year.

Usually, there's still a store wide sale near the store's anniversary date (June, I recall.)

rusty

Mark, Rusty,

I remember getting a box of goodies from them not too long ago, so out of curiosity, I checked my old emails.  In addition to the anniversary sale Rusty mentioned, they had them around July 4th, Labor Day, and Thanksgiving of this year.  I also saw that they had one last year starting on New Year's eve so it might be worth waiting to see if they'll do another one of those this year.

Mark, you might have to call them to get on the email list.

Mike A.

Mark

That Husky Stack car is the one car I tried to use.  You can get hi rail wheel sets but it will not work on Gilbert radius track without serious modification.  It is a good looking car, but with 2 shipping container units it is close to $100.  I called them and they told me their cars are made for scale operation and adding hi rail wheelsets is secondary to their design.  

Bill

First of all, the Husky Stack wasn't a DesPlaines design.  It came from the original S Scale America (of which DesPlaines bought the tooling and naming rights.)  The original SSA only offered the Husky Stacks as a kit.

The ACF covered hoppers are from Pacific Rail shops tooling and come set up for Hirail (see my previous post) with scale wheels included, ala SHS.

Same for all their modern FMC, ACF and Evans 50' boxcars, which are DesPlaines designs.  I posted part of the catalog some time ago but can't locate it right now.  I can always repost it after I get home.  Most of the catalog photos do show the cars with Hirail wheels and couplers.  They operate no differently than the AM 50' Railbox boxcar.

While these cars aren't the latest and greatest in the prototype world, they're what we got right now in S.

To ignore SSA/DesPlaines cars when writing an article about creating a modern train, be it Hirail or Scale would seem to be a disservice to S Gaugers.

Rusty

Sorry Rusty, I disagree.  

Des Plains Hobbies to me is just not comparable with American Models, MTH, and Lionel. For Scale Guys they are, but to most of the market (85%) who are hi Rail, they are not a player. I chose to look at what the major players had that while not the latest rolling stock being produced you could still see on the tracks and being used.

Since I wrote the article I got to make that decison. 

Bill

ACF center flow hopper, bethgon porter hoppers, ttx well cars, various box cars including evens...I would say des plains does more for "modern" rolling stock than ALL the other big players combined. And all are available prominently in high rail. 

Ben

Oh gosh.

Not trying to raise anyone's ire here, but if S is to grow, we must embrace models that won't go around Gilbert curves, or clear AF switch machines.

In the 1930s I believe Lionel brought out their 700E Hudson and M10,000 that needed 072 curves, and also made the track for it.

All those who are asking for autoracks and such must realise a much larger radius is needed. And we need so many other things first that will go around the radii that MTH and Lionel currently offer. 

An old coworker once asked me about getting into S when the Great Boot of Sanda Kan exiled a lot of our manufacturing ability. He asked "what about track?" I knew he was looking to do a floor layout so had to say that well, American Models makes track, you may be able to find some SHS stockpiles somewhere.  But it's a scrounger's world at best.

I cringe at the thought of suggesting to a newbie to seek out old Gilbert track. Before you start the hateful replies, imagine someone who's looking at the SD70s, and Y3s, and you tell them to build their new S Gauge empire with ancient salvaged track that is nowhere near as nice looking as the models they are attracted to. Yeah, the rubber roadbed helps a lot, if you can find it.

My roots are Flyer, and I haven't forsaken hirail equipment, but I like track that looks as scale proportioned as my models. This is important to me. Even if we're talking about my 302 Atlantic. Gilbert track still doesn't measure up to that.  Other than realistically having two rails, face it, it's spindly and weird looking.

I have those SSA well cars. And I bought the American Models long Pullmans. I'll probably use AM or MTH flextrack on the new layout. Switches will be an obstacle, but I accept the challenge.

Nothing I said here helps those with existing layouts. Just trying to make the point that we are wanting modern rolling stock, myself included, and the old tech is in the way.  Sixty foot plus cars are now the norm. Therefore, our model infrastructure must evolve. 

True, your decision.  However...

As mentioned, the DPH box cars and hoppers will do R20 (see Ben's picture earlier.)  How can DPH not be a major player when 85-90% of their line is Hirail equipped right out of the box???

Seems like you're dismissing the entire DPH line because of your experience with the Husky Stack.

Y'know, once on the scale Yahoo board, someone chortled on how Pacific Rail Shops cars (now owned by DPH) was scale only and couldn't be used for Hirail.  I promptly posted pictures of two Hirail conversions I did: a 40' reefer and a 40' boxcar.  It was an easy conversion and of course DPH now offers the same type cars (and more) with Hirail wheels and couplers. 

Not a player indeed...

MTH doesn't have anything modern in S.  Nobody in the real world runs piggy backs on 50' GSC flatcars anymore.  Haven't since the late 1960's.  Sure, MTH has some PS2 hoppers in contemporary paint, but these are also mid-1950's design cars.

Also, all of MTH's former S Helper Service cars just happen to be scale cars with Hirail wheels and couplers.

I'll grant AM is your best bet with the tank cars, covered hoppers, Railbox cars and maybe even the gondola's.

BTW: You do know that AM started out as a scale only manufacturer?  What did they do to attract the Hirail/Flyer crowd?  Change the wheels and couplers.

As for Lionel/Flyer... Contemporary graphics on some of the cylindrical hoppers, sorta OK as they they're the only game in town (better if the cars rode at the proper height.)  The 40' waffle side boxcar is also sorta OK, but it still boarders on the edge of reality.  These and other than the converted and oversized O27 spine car from a decade or so ago, they pretty much got nuthin'.

Rusty

The horn on the new run of SD 70ACe is quite different from the older runs.  It sounds more realistic.  Noticed also that the new run has the center axle sprung instead of the outside axle on the earlier runs.  The AC44 engines had the center axle sprung and when I converted them to scale wheels they would derail even on R27 fastrack.  Didn't like the "traction tire wobble" so on the AC44s I replaced just the axles that had the tires with scale wheels and left the others with hightail wheels.  Cured the derailment problems and I can even run those engines on R20 Fastrack.  Never had any problems running any of my earlier run of SD70ACe with complete sets of scale spwheels even on R20.  Not sure if the problem was with the E44s or the change in sprung axle location.

For your consideration...

Now this is a fantastic looking car, and in my opinion not unreasonably priced.  The issue I suspect Bill has is that I does not like r27 Flyer curves.  And when equipped with highrail trucks there is not much clearance to for the truck to rotate to accommodate the right turns.  You can see this in the last picture.  On bigger radius curves (I have used them on r54 there is not an issue...and if one still had a problem, I suspect placing a 1/8" spacer between the rails of the well and the bottom trailer would allow adequate clearance.  That being said, I have had no issue with any of the other rolling stock from S Scale America.  

A string of these behind my BNSF ES44S looks fantastic.  

The detail on these is fantastic....

And the Even's cars can be a daily sight around the Chicagoland area, I see these WC cars on the rails all the time. 

I did not even pull out the ACF hoppers because Rusty hit them up top....

Bill it's your article AND I will read it....but when new people look at S they are looking for the fidelity and relatively "modern" cars that you can get here....not much else out there.  

Ben

The thing is American Models produces cars much like the types of cars in your pictures.  I suppose S Scale American would work fine.  

I used primarily AM cars in my article as I found them very easy to get and I am confident they work well. The container car did not work well and I left DPH out except for this car because I was not happy with conversation with them about the situation.

My S Gaugian with the article arrived today so it is out for people to read and consider.. 

Mark

Yes, with the 48' trailer the flanges of the wheels hit the trailer bottom when it sits in the well.  I had not thought about a spacer between the truck attachment and the frame, that would likely work.  

Here is another option....

This photo is not mine, it's from one of the many S gauge Facebook groups.  The smaller trailers would obviously solve the issue.  I don't know is the smaller trailers are store bought or scratch built.  I will ask.  

I will try the car on the r20 track, but I think it is going to struggle some, from truck to truck it is a long car. I will report back. 

Ben

banjoflyer posted:

 

Thank you Ben for the fantastic pictures. These are the cars I want. And if I can somehow find out when the 20% sale happens I would be a player for at least 3 and maybe 5 cars with 2 containers on each. God help me. Can you please elaborate on " I suspect placing a 1/8" spacer between the rails of the well and the bottom trailer would allow adequate clearance.  " Do you mean to say that the highrail wheels actually hit the container in the well when turning tight curves? Adding a spacer does look like it would work. Do you think the truck could be moved forward about 1/8"?

It looks like the wheels will clear the steps but who knows? My problem is I am stuck with r20 Fastrack and there is no going back to anything else. Could you please put one of these cars on your tabletop r20 loop if you have one and see what hits what and let me know?

Thanks to MikeAA, Rusty, Bill, you and all the other guys for adding to the conversation.

WHAT IS THE CENTER TO CENTER MEASUREMENT ON THE TRUCKS? MORE OR LESS THAN THE CYLINDRICAL HOPPERS?

Short story...I WANT these cars and gotta make them work on r20 without destroying them.

Mark

 

I think moving the truck might cause some interference with the end of the car.

A consideration (if you have no intention of running the car empty or moving containers around) might be to remove just enough material from the container edge where the flange is chafing.

Rusty

Was discussing "S" over dinner. Saw a display last weekend with 4 modern Lionel/Flyer UP engines, 2 ES44's (?) and two SD70's (?)  Looked very nice. The cars in this thread look great!

Not only do you have to trim the load on these container cars, but also trim the shank that runs from the truck to the coupler on each side so the wheels will make the turn.  The coupler will not pivot far enough in the shank to go around a Flyer curve so the sides of the shank holding the coupler must be trimmed away too.  A lot of modification.  This car comes with    hi rail wheels and couplers it is a real stretch to use it.  

I'll grant the well car wasn't designed with the Flyer operator in mind.  I think I would remove the coupler box entirely and use either an AM or SHS/MTH talgo coupler, which might also raise the car slightly enough for the flanges to clear the bottom of the container.

Now you know how us scale guys felt about all the phiddlypharting around we had to do with the Flyer cylindrical hoppers...

Rusty

Had one of these cars for awhile.  It would run on R27 Fastrack barely but had to put plastic shims in bottom to lift the container.  It would not negotiate R20 Fastrack with either scale or highrail wheels even without the containers.  It was a nice car but, in my opinion, requires R30 or wider curves.

Wow.  Shimming up the containers.   The easiest, least damaging and probably the least obvious.  Never even thought about that.

Have to file that one away for future reference.

Rusty

I have four DPH intermodal container cars and several of their boxcars and gondolas, all with high-rail wheels and Kadee couplers. The first plastic 48-ft containers they offered as kits fit into the wells easily, but the later ready-to-run versions are a bit tight and rub against the silver walkways when inserted. Both versions contact the higher flanges of the high-rail wheels on any curve, but I simply added two long, thin wooden coffee stirrers to the well to lift the containers slightly. That eliminated the problems entirely. Although the 53-ft containers are stated on the website as "perfect" for the intermodal cars, they do not fit in the well. They would have to be seated on top of a 48-ft version, which is prototypical.

These intermodal cars are long and low. Although they can work slowly around tight curves on my layout, they contact the HO sized manual ground throws if those stands are on the inside of the switch curve. All of the DPH products are very highly detailed, and I have relied on them and American Models' 50-ft box cars to modernize the freight behind SD70ACes and ES44ACs.

Mark:

I can't measure tonight but they are probably at least 2 to 3 inches further apart. 

Mark,

Cylindrical Hopper 7 5/8

Husky Stack 10 5/8

Craig

Ben,

I been wondering if you had any update on your SD70.Im waiting the arrival of my 2 demonstrators and 3 NS units. 

Im getting impatient, an look forward to getting them running. Enjoy yours!

Snowman 

The 3 I received, 2 heritage and UP 8444 all run and function with no issues. I do like the horn in this run better than the last.  

My notherns will be in today, and I will try and get some pictures or a video up.  

I hope you get your units soon, I would like to see a picture of the demonstrator unit when you get it. 

Ben

Its not here yet, but as soon as i get it, ill post a fews pics and let you know what i think about it.