2017 American Flyer Catalog

I think the plan is for it to be available Wednesday online. The sneak peak of the cover, at least at this point, is not much of a peak at all...

Ben

From an email sent out today by Doug Peck of Portline Hobbies:

"2017 AMERICAN FLYER:   Just today, as I was about to close and send this E-Newsletter, I received word of the 2017 Lionel American Flyer catalog contents (the catalog has not yet been released, even on their website).  Here are some highlights, although I do not have any images yet.

          Six new Legacy-equipped PA A-A pairs: New Haven; PRR; MP; D&H; SP Daylight; and Santa Fe (since a couple of these are repeats, I have to assume they have new cab numbers).

          Four new Flyerchief GP7 diesels: Santa Fe “Blue Bonnet”;  UP;  NKP/NPR;  North Pole Central

          Three new RTR conventional freight sets:  Northeast Ohio;  UP;  CP

          Four wood-sided reefers (NEW to the AF line!):  United Refrigerator Bananas; Grand Union Foods; Columbia Soups;  Monarch Foods

          Four Auto Carriers (NEW to the AF line !): CSX;  UP;  NS;  BNSF---each in four different numbers.

          Two new MOW cars:  Santa Fe “War Bonnet” Crane & Boom car combo;  Santa Fe Tie-Jector car

          Three flat cars: UP Piggyback Loader with Flat car and trailers; NH piggyback flat car; REA piggyback flat car

          Three Polar Express items: Wood-sided reefer;  new Coach;  Billboard pack

          The 2017 Christmas boxcar

           NOTE:  I am especially pleased to see that Lionel is introducing the wood-sided reefers and the Auto-Carriers. Both of these are new AF items that some of us have been advocating and promoting to Lionel over the past three or four years……..and they have obviously listened!  We’ll wait to see the catalog, but I only hope the auto-carriers are in fact properly scaled, and with 1:64 vehicles (or perhaps empty, and we provide our own vehicles?)…..not just the old O-gauge auto-carriers with S trucks !!!

          Notably absent are any operating accessories, other than another piggyback unloader."

Mike A.

Thats my concern too. I hope they are the MODERN auto racks. Hopefully they didnt do with the auto racks like the did with the cylindrical hoppers. Model something totally out of date just so they can say they made us something.

I will say this though....after recieveing my SD70 demo and NS units, I HAVE FAITH they got the auto racks right!!!! The new locomotives are the finest things yet in my opinion. Im very pleased.

Are the RTR sets the docksider or something cool? And I would have thought with the popularity of lionchief we would be past "conventional" sets. 

I will be shocked, shocked...if the auto racks are of a more modern type. I think they will be likely the open air style that was used back in the 50s(???).  That does not mean I would not buy a bunch if they are scale!!! ~~~ edit ~ I see it says 4 different road numbers each, I would think if this is some gilbert-esk type traditional car they would not do that....hummmmm.....

Ben

I have to see this catalog. The Auto Carriers might be what I was waiting to get.

Hmmm.  I's not like there aren't bunches of Showcase Line reefers from MTH and old SHS out there.

Just a note.  Lionel tends to really frown on dealers who leak like this.

Rusty

Rusty

Not the first place I would have spent tooling money myself, but what do we know?  I wonder if they will have a list if the 25 cylindrical hoppers in this catalog, or are they finally put to bed.  

Ben 

Ben, 

I guess the reason i MIGHT have a little faith is the fact that the road names are modern. NS, CSX, UP, BNSF Are all new enough to where the auto racks will HOPEFULLY be modern. 

I was kinda hoping for some modern tank cars myself, maybe next year! Lol

Snow

I looked around on Lionel's site, they have, in O gauge, made the 50s style auto carrier cars in BNSF and CSX over the years, despite the fact that this could only happen in real life if the auto carrier rack was loaded with a bunch of Doc Brown's DeLoreans and the train was traveling at 88mph.  

I would not put it past Lionel to slap CSX on a older car if they think it will sell.   

We won't have to wait long to find out.  

Ben

NotInWI posted:

Rusty

Not the first place I would have spent tooling money myself, but what do we know?  I wonder if they will have a list if the 25 cylindrical hoppers in this catalog, or are they finally put to bed.  

Ben 

**updated**

When I checked in late last night I was surprised to the the Doug Peck notice and decided to "sleep on" the auto-rack announcement.

Well, now I'm sorta awake...

I'm a bit puzzled, also.  Perhaps this is the "scale potential" car brought up by Lionel earlier.  The question is if the 57' mechanical reefer didn't make the cut, would an auto carrier make it? (And the 1:64 question is are they scale, traditional or something inbetween.  The notice does say "carrier" and not "rack")   Maybe this will be the right car at the right time. 

I can see this going one of four ways:

1. The standard Flyer flat with some sort of "rack" or the 1950's Auto-Loader deck popped on.
2. Re-purposed old O27 auto-rack tooling.
3. A totally newly tooled 89' auto rack based on their O Scale car (which is very impressive by the way.)
4. A 60'-70' compressed version of #3.

If we were to take Lionel at their word and this is the "scale potential" car, #1 and #2 are eliminated.  #3 and #4 raise other questions that aren't worth getting all worked up about until we at least see the catalog representation of the car.

Another thought about the new reefer.  There was a woodsided reefer put out by Crown Models years ago.  My understanding is these were tooled by Weaver.  Now that Lionel has the U.S. based Weaver tooling, I wonder if they inherited the S reefer tooling also.

Wednesday the truth will out.

Rusty

Maybe they will be full scale autoracks, and they're reissuing those outrageous high bolster cylindrical hopper trucks that will lift the 89' foot car above the switch machines and other obstacles. 

Rusty Traque posted:

I'm a bit puzzled, also.  Perhaps this is the "scale potential" car brought up by Lionel earlier.  The question is if the 57' mechanical reefer didn't make the cut, would an auto carrier make it? (And the 1:64 question is are they scale, traditional or something inbetween.  The notice does say "carrier" and not "rack")   Maybe this will be the right car at the right time. 

I can see this going one of four ways:

1. The standard Flyer flat with some sort of "rack" or the 1950's Auto-Loader deck popped on.
2. Re-purposed old O27 auto-rack tooling.
3. A totally newly tooled 89' auto rack based on their O Scale car (which is very impressive by the way.)
4. A 60'-70' compressed version of #3.

If we were to take Lionel at their word and this is the "scale potential" car, #1 and #2 are eliminated.  #3 and #4 raise other questions that aren't worth getting all worked up about until we at least see the catalog representation of the car.

Another thought about the new reefer.  There was a woodsided reefer put out by Crown Models years ago.  My understanding is these were tooled by Weaver.  Now that Lionel has the U.S. based Weaver tooling, I wonder if they inherited the S reefer tooling also.

Wednesday the truth will out.

Rusty

Lionel has two different "027" auto carriers -- the earlier open style (first produced in late 1972), and the later enclosed versions first catalogued in 1990. I wonder how the later one would look with Flyer trucks?

And nice sleuthing on the Crown wood-sided reefer -- I think you're onto something.

TRW

PaperTRW posted:

Lionel has two different "027" auto carriers -- the earlier open style (first produced in late 1972), and the later enclosed versions first catalogued in 1990. I wonder how the later one would look with Flyer trucks?

TRW

You'll find out on Wednesday. 

Stu

PaperTRW posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

I'm a bit puzzled, also.  Perhaps this is the "scale potential" car brought up by Lionel earlier.  The question is if the 57' mechanical reefer didn't make the cut, would an auto carrier make it? (And the 1:64 question is are they scale, traditional or something inbetween.  The notice does say "carrier" and not "rack")   Maybe this will be the right car at the right time. 

I can see this going one of four ways:

1. The standard Flyer flat with some sort of "rack" or the 1950's Auto-Loader deck popped on.
2. Re-purposed old O27 auto-rack tooling.
3. A totally newly tooled 89' auto rack based on their O Scale car (which is very impressive by the way.)
4. A 60'-70' compressed version of #3.

If we were to take Lionel at their word and this is the "scale potential" car, #1 and #2 are eliminated.  #3 and #4 raise other questions that aren't worth getting all worked up about until we at least see the catalog representation of the car.

Another thought about the new reefer.  There was a woodsided reefer put out by Crown Models years ago.  My understanding is these were tooled by Weaver.  Now that Lionel has the U.S. based Weaver tooling, I wonder if they inherited the S reefer tooling also.

Wednesday the truth will out.

Rusty

Lionel has two different "027" auto carriers -- the earlier open style (first produced in late 1972), and the later enclosed versions first catalogued in 1990. I wonder how the later one would look with Flyer trucks?

And nice sleuthing on the Crown wood-sided reefer -- I think you're onto something.

TRW

Here's a picture of a Crown reefer, just in case:

Rusty

Can't wait to see the PA's.   I have been suggesting New Haven PA's and AT&SF PA's with correct Santa Fe nose emblems for years.  Hopefully, the SF won't be the weird (on a PA) blue and black freight scheme.  These will be great with Legacy control.

Scott Griggs

Louisville, KY

Here are pictures of the S-Helper and Crown banana reefers.

Rusty 

What a scale frieght car might have going for it now, that the 57' did not, is a whole lotta SD70s and ES44s out there. 

Two thoughts on the idea that Lionel slapped S Gauge trucks on a O Gauge car, first - in Roundhouse Bills most recent interview of Ryan K, Ryan talked about the mediocre success they had with S Gauge-afying O Gauge equipment. In the same article he said the car with scale potential was of new tooling, maybe that means Wever, maybe legit new tooling??? 

The picture you have of the reefer, on my phone is not that good, is it a scale/highrail car, or is it a gelibertish traditional car? 

Ben

Well, I'll wait until Wed. to make a judgement but I'm prepared to be disappointed. Doesn't sound like much I would be interested in. Maybe the reefer if it is scale size with add on details and scale wheels available. I highly doubt that though.

Lionel used to get thousands of dollars from me every year in O, then briefly in S, but now that they've gone away from scale they aren't getting any of my train budget. Oh well. Here's hoping MTH gets going.

It is my understanding that these are NOT the modern Autoracks.  Rather it is the style they made in the 1990's. This is Lionel trying to meet the spirit of what we were asking for without spending a lot on tooling.  The 1990 Lionel cars were under scaled at 1/60th scale.  It is my guess that these will be used.  If so they may be close enough to S scale that they may not look bad.  We will see next week.

--Rocco--

NotInWI posted:

Rusty 

What a scale frieght car might have going for it now, that the 57' did not, is a whole lotta SD70s and ES44s out there. 

Two thoughts on the idea that Lionel slapped S Gauge trucks on a O Gauge car, first - in Roundhouse Bills most recent interview of Ryan K, Ryan talked about the mediocre success they had with S Gauge-afying O Gauge equipment. In the same article he said the car with scale potential was of new tooling, maybe that means Wever, maybe legit new tooling??? 

The picture you have of the reefer, on my phone is not that good, is it a scale/highrail car, or is it a gelibertish traditional car? 

Ben

The Crown reefer is a Scale/HiRail car, but the detail is a little crude.  It sorta falls inbetween Gilbert and S-Helper cars, leaning towards S Helper.   Ladders, brakewheel and roofwalk are separate parts.  Basic underbody detail. 

Think "Good Enuf."

They came with S-Helper trucks and were available as Scale or HiRail.

The Crown cars are unique from Gilbert and S Helper in that they are wood sides with steel ends and roof.   If Lionel does have this tooling, it will be a good addition to the Flyer line unless they price it astronomically.

Just remember, this is all supposition that it's the Crown car.

Rusty

Rocco, i sure hope your wrong. Id be upset if thats their idea of an auto carrier,they done so good on the sd70 and es44.

At some point building the sd70 and es44 would be in vain if they NEVER make any realistic modern freight cars to go with them.

I hope I am wrong too.  If they do the 89 Auto racks they will have hit a home run with their customers as it will show they really have been listening.  I just have a feeling from talking to some folks in the know that Lionel was adverse to that tooling and since they called it Auto carriers as opposed to Auto Racks the thought would be that they would use the under scaled O tooling.  If that is what they did then they are at least showing they are listening but not exactly hitting the bullseye.

--Rocco--

I agree 100% with that statment Rocco!!

"New" wood side reefer? Cool.

Still say if I'd would have thought to alter my approach concerning my S scale KC Lines idea (ditch trying to accurately reflect the early 1960's and go earlier so I could include steam), and done it via high rail ala Brooks Stover (Kadee equipped cars on the smallest rail RTR track system the flanges would accept), I may have been more satisfied to stay in S.

Think: A reefer train powered by a Flyonel 2-8-2 chugging through a KC setting. Yup, I could have been up for that!

The only reefer I would have been moderately interested in is the Grand Union.  Fortunate for me but unfortunate for Lionel, I already have the SHS version:

Rusty

Whatever the cars turn out to be I hope they are well done and are a sales success. The last thing we need is for a new S gauge offering to miss the sales targets Lionel expects.

AmFlyer posted:

Whatever the cars turn out to be I hope they are well done and are a sales success. The last thing we need is for a new S gauge offering to miss the sales targets Lionel expects.

I think the only way we'll know is if the cars are actually delivered.  Lionel cancelled the 57' mechanical reefers a week before they were supposed to be delivered, not after the pre-order window closed.  They could've put the word out earlier to try to get more orders.

I still think deep down they blame the market as to why the cylindrical hoppers are still hanging around.

Rusty

Rocco posted:

I hope I am wrong too.  If they do the 89 Auto racks they will have hit a home run with their customers as it will show they really have been listening.  I just have a feeling from talking to some folks in the know that Lionel was adverse to that tooling and since they called it Auto carriers as opposed to Auto Racks the thought would be that they would use the under scaled O tooling.  If that is what they did then they are at least showing they are listening but not exactly hitting the bullseye.

 

--Rocco--

Lionel made O-27 gauge cars with S gauge trucks some 30 years ago and the AF collectors went ballistic. You should have heard the b&&*hing and moaning about it. Flyer guys have rarely had to contend with items that are out of scale. The final Gilbert locomotives (F-3, Frontiersman, etc) were the only instances where S gauge Flyer was not built generally to scale proportions. Postwar Gilbert never had their version of selective compression, like O-27. Flyer folks expect scale dimensions. They may go for varying levels of detail, but the dimensions have to be mostly correct.

RoyBoy,

I am keeping my fingers crossed that these are the 89' Autoracks that they currently have in O.  I think if done right they will be a huge seller. 

I had hope for the SD40, Leagacy powered B units (Maybe if all these Legacy Alco's sell well next year) and the RR crossing they have issued twice with different model numbers but never produced.  You can't have everything and this catalog has the potential to be pretty good giving a lot of what we have been asking for.

--Rocco--

Todays sneak peek photo by Lionel on Facebook certainly looks like a Flyer GP-7.

Doug Peck already leaked the FlyerChief GP7's...

But, it looks like a new 4 wheel truck for the GP's and truck mounted pilots.  No more Gilbert stretch Blomberg's?  That's what I call an improvement.

However, this truck looks too short.  Hopefully it's just bad Photoshop.

Rusty

I have the earlier pair of the Nickle Plate Jeeps.  I don't want PA's in Legacy either. No more please.

I really wanted another steam FlyerChief.

I may sit this year out and hope for what I want in 2018.

 .

The original NKP GP's were among the nicest decorated units in the Flyer line up. (Mine even run pretty good, too...)  If they get what appears to be a new, shorter (9 foot) wheelbase power truck right, these boys just might have some company.  The illustration makes me a little nervous, though.

Rusty

Only 2 days of suspense Rusty.

Wish they would have made PA's in some other schemes. Erie/Lackawanna, Lehigh Valley, or Southern would have been nice. The only plus to the schemes rumored to be produced, is that now 7 or 8 car passenger consists will be no problem.

Ive been sorta wondering which New haven paint scheme they'll do.  AC Gilbert's version missed the mark:

As delivered, Hunter Green & Warm Orange:

Hunter Green and Gold:

McGiness:

Reverse McGiness (two units only):

Alpert:

Rusty

These would look nice

Well today is the big day. Ill be waiting to hear what some have to say!!

I actually think the catalog is good even thought there's nothing I'm really interested in (well maybe the NKP GP once they're delivered.  I ain't pre-ordering) 

Noticed there's no new roadnames for the standard freight cars. 

It also appears the zombie cars you forge in life shall follow you through all eternity...

Rusty