2021 Lionel Catalog S Gauge Steam

@Rusty Traque posted:

60"???  That's 8 prototype inches, almost a full 1/16" larger that would be on an S Russian. It's easy to get away with slightly undersized drivers, but harder to get away with oversized ones.

Stretched out over 5 driver pairs that's an extra 5/16" on an S scale model, not counting some additional spacing needed between drivers.  I'm not sure the selective expansion over the length wouldn't be noticeable.  Might as well just drop the trailing truck, add another driver to the Mikado's frame and plop the Pacific/Mikado boiler back on it, then call it done.

Maybe Lionel should have used two Mikado drives under the Y3...  After all, 63" drivers are close to 57" drivers...

Rusty

I believe if you take the average of all the different drivers you mentioned it would actually be 59.5".  I was just trying to round it off.  Yes, if you put the smallest next to the largest I am sure you would see a difference.  I find it quiet noticeable on the ACG Reading Atlantic...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Anyhow...  Getting back to the original concept of this thread.

While I'm glad to see the return of the Pacific's, I'm not really in the market for one.  I've got the B&O from the olden days, although the B&O did rebuild some Pacific's with a centered headlight.  I'm sorta surprised Lionel didn't dress it up for a President's class Pacific and paint it olive or blue.  Maybe in the future as another overpriced passenger set...

Being a Santa Fe enthusiast, I could almost go for the Santa Fe Pacific, but I've made a conscious effort to concentrate my HiRail efforts to roads east of the Mississippi. (Yeah, I know Santa Fe ran to Chicago, but the majority trackage is west of the Mighty Mississippi.)

I suppose there's always the NYC...

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

Being a Santa Fe enthusiast, I could almost go for the Santa Fe Pacific, but I've made a conscious effort to concentrate my HiRail efforts to roads east of the Mississippi. (Yeah, I know Santa Fe ran to Chicago, but the majority trackage is west of the Mighty Mississippi.)

I suppose there's always the NYC...

Rusty

What we need is...



That's how Lionel could get my $.        

Beyond my sarcasm -  I might add - this is the basis for the PW Lionel 2055.   They could sell it to all the Lionel collectors as the 21st Century Version.

This is long overdue.......

@Jacobpaul81 posted:

What we need is...



That's how Lionel could get my $.        

Beyond my sarcasm -  I might add - this is the basis for the PW Lionel 2055.   They could sell it to all the Lionel collectors as the 21st Century Version.

@DL&W Pete posted:

This is long overdue.......

Same answer to both.  Unless Lionel has offered one in O, we're not going even have a hope to see it in S.

It's why I know I won't see a Russian Decapod in S from Lionel.  Or a favorite of mine in the diesel category:  Fairbanks Morse C-Liners. (Life-Like HO model shown)

Rusty

I have communicated with Ryan Kunkle of Lionel today and they did find and use the earlier tooling for these new Pacifics.  I am glad they are back in the inventory.

@Roundhouse Bill posted:

I have communicated with Ryan Kunkle of Lionel today and they did find and use the earlier tooling for these new Pacifics.  I am glad they are back in the inventory.

Bill, is there any way you could confirm that the R27" curve requirements for the Pacifics are typos?  And secondly whether they come ready for conversion to scale couplers like the Berks?

Ryan is hard to communicate with.  His answer on the tooling was one word, "yes".  I suggest the NASG meeting with him on the 2nd would be batter to approach these topics.

@Roundhouse Bill posted:

Ryan is hard to communicate with.  His answer on the tooling was one word, "yes".  I suggest the NASG meeting with him on the 2nd would be batter to approach these topics.

Understood.  Will do.

@Rusty Traque posted:

Same answer to both.  Unless Lionel has offered one in O, we're not going even have a hope to see it in S.

It's why I know I won't see a Russian Decapod in S from Lionel.  Or a favorite of mine in the diesel category:  Fairbanks Morse C-Liners. (Life-Like HO model shown)

Rusty

I don’t understand the correlation that we in the S gauge/scale have to mirror what is being built in the O gauge line, am I missing something here? Why can’t Lionel be inspirational and do what we want for a change?

Now I will agree with you that the FM C-liner is cool!

@Ukaflyer posted:

I don’t understand the correlation that we in the S gauge/scale have to mirror what is being built in the O gauge line, am I missing something here? Why can’t Lionel be inspirational and do what we want for a change?

Now I will agree with you that the FM C-liner is cool!

It's simple.  The research is done.  Lionel's going to do (if anything) new S products they already have data for.  And they do have a lot of data hiding in their computers that could be turned into never before made American Flyer products.  Theoretically, Lionel could make an S scale Acela...

All the brand new releases over the past decade were first offered in O Gauge.  Nothing else was created new for the Flyer line that wasn't in the Gilbert lineup.  Now, Lionel's made some changes for the better to the likes of the Baldwin switcher and GP7, but again nothing truly new.

The Mikado's and Pacific's from the early 2000's were pretty much an anomaly, done by a different and long gone team.  The Big Boy just took advantage of available tooling to create a caricature.

Rusty

@Roundhouse Bill posted:

Every year and catalog is the same.  We all complain about what they didn't make that we wanted and hoped they would or what they are making is poorly done.  I think that is why they don't listen to us.

In the past when I interviewed the people at Lionel about Flyer for the S Gaugian I heard, "If you ask 20 Flyer guys what they wanted you get 20 different answers."  That was followed by, "We try to produce what we think will sell with the tooling costs we can afford."

They used to use a small secret committee of known Flyer people for suggestions.  I know of a couple of these people and they haven't really met for several years.  Well, there is always the next catalog.

Bill,  

I offered Lionel the following question that they did not take answers to........

“During the last 3 years there have been surveys on the OGR S gauge forum saying what people wanted and were willing to buy.  It’s true that you ask 20 S people you will get 20 different answers but 19 of those people will be willing to buy 19 of those suggestions.  What will it take for Lionel to actually make what your customers want to buy?”

In my opinion you will make more money making products people want (even with new tooling) then offering retreads that no one is asking for.

As a personal note, knowing this was the 75th year I put aside funds thinking I was going to buy more items then previous years because for the 75th with all the great possibilities people had suggested.  I was certain there would more new items I would want.

Well now after this catalog, I’m buying less then any previous year from Lionel.  Well maybe they will surprise me in volume 2.

—Rocco—

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

A request: Those of you who possess Lionel AF S gauge Challengers and have shot video, would you please share.

Thanks,

Joe

All I have are stills.  Found a couple of videos on YouTube:

Rusty

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

Thanks Rusty, great for starters!

Good lookin' locomotives, however, I'm still not sold on the crew talk.  The English language has changed so much over the years.  Just check out the way Americans talked during the era of the Gay 90's, Roaring Twenties, World War II, the Fabulous Fifties, and fast forward to Century 21!  Ditto with the railroaders, be it Casey Jones on the Cannonball Express or Denzel Washington in the motion picture "Unstoppable" for example.

I can't justify spending $$$ for any feature(s) I do not have any use for.

Joe

Crew talk/radio chatter is usually pretty inane, I never use that option.  I cringe when I hear some of the "banter" between the locomotive and dispatcher.  Especially on locomotives that didn't have radios, like most steam locomotives before the late 20th/21st century excursion era.

But, it's all just a subroutine integrated into main program and no special hardware required.  Removing it won't make things any cheaper.

I don't use smoke either. I just turn them off and not carp about the added costs.  Why?  Someone once asked Don Thompson of S Helper if removing smoke from the 2-8-0 would make the loco cost less.  He responded the bulk purchase costs of the smoke unit was negligible and wouldn't affect the MSRP.

Rusty

Then there are those of us, at least myself, that are easily entertained by the inane. I use the towercom and crewtalk. I even have the Sensor tracks programmed to trigger crewtalk and whistles when an engine passes over one. I am still disappointed the Challengers do not have brake squeal.

As for smoke, too much is almost enough. Half of my diesel fleet now has smoke as well as all the steam engines.

@Rusty Traque posted:

All I have are stills.  Found a couple of videos on YouTube:

Rusty

I am picking one of these up later this week or next. As if I really needed to expand on my post war AF stuff but I do really like S. It’s such a cool size for a smaller space.

@WRW posted:

... but I do really like S. It’s such a cool size for a smaller space.

Perfect description. 👍

Mark in Oregon

Any word on if there are any cancellations?? Curious if the Pacifics are a go.  Also wondering on the status of the EP5

Ben

I'm kinda wondering about the cancellations here as well. I've got the NH EP-5 and the U.S.A F. Baldwin set on preorder.  I'm fairly certain the Baldwin set is going to ship but I'm a bit confused on the EP-5s. I do not see them listed on the shipping schedual in Lionel's website. Pretty much everything else is listed along with a projected delivery date but no EP-5s.

I sure hope they haven't been canceled, I've been really looking forward to it.

I’m so on the fence about the EP5.  I have thought about ordering one just to support the project but I really don’t care for any of the 4 road names produced.  If they only did the Milwaukee Road or the PE in it.  

Ben

Have not seen any updates but I expect the Legacy Pacifics will be made. Lionel apparently has all the dies/tools they need from the 2005 era TMCC versions of the engine. I have two on order. Lionel did say that a Legacy version of the Light Mikado will likely be made following the Pacifics.

Ryan Kunkle stated on a Workbench Wednesday livestream (about a month ago?) that the only AF cancellation was the Reading and Northern excursion set.

@Keith L posted:

Ryan Kunkle stated on a Workbench Wednesday livestream (about a month ago?) that the only AF cancellation was the Reading and Northern excursion set.

Of course, the Reading.  Good news is American Models is near running their heavyweight set decorated for the Reading Company... finally some real Reading equipment.

I didn't see, but what engine was Lionel going to use for their Reading and Northern set?

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

It was a new Legacy Pacific decorated for R&N, the engine was a blue color. The coaches and caboose were red with black roofs. In my opinion the challenge was the retail price; an engine, two coaches, a baggage and a caboose for $1,400.

@AmFlyer posted:

It was a new Legacy Pacific decorated for R&N, the engine was a blue color. The coaches and caboose were red with black roofs. In my opinion the challenge was the retail price; an engine, two coaches, a baggage and a caboose for $1,400.

Thanks Tom,

Now I remember total fantasy, both in equipment and price.

Tom Stoltz

@Tom Stoltz posted:

Thanks Tom,

Now I remember total fantasy, both in equipment and price.

Tom Stoltz

Apparently, folks have accepted the $1,400 challenge for the ACG Anniversary set.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

Apparently, folks have accepted the $1,400 challenge for the ACG Anniversary set.

Rusty

Now those are some dedicate Flyer fans. I can't imagine paying almost $190 per car for plastic, fantasy schemed, low detail passenger cars.

I sprung for the boxcar but not for the Anniversary set.

The $1400 price was outrageous but I'm still bummed to see it cancelled... it would have been a nice set to pick up for like $1000 after it sat on a dealer shelf and collected dust for a year. 😆

I had preordered a Legacy B&O Pacific and had some concerns. In response to my inquiry, Ryan e-mailed to me that the Pacifics, the EP-5's, and passenger cars are a 'go'. The R&N set was the only item from the new catalog that was canceled.

Hope this helps.

Bob

@Bob Bubeck posted:

I had preordered a Legacy B&O Pacific and had some concerns. In response to my inquiry, Ryan e-mailed to me that the Pacifics, the EP-5's, and passenger cars are a 'go'. The R&N set was the only item from the new catalog that was canceled.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Well, I preordered the New Haven.  I need another EP-5 like I need a hole in the head.

Hey, why does it feel so drafty up there???

Rusty

Rusty,

Your response is a real grin! Hope the draft up there is is warm and pleasant :-)

Ed Boyle

@Bob Bubeck posted:

I had preordered a Legacy B&O Pacific and had some concerns. In response to my inquiry, Ryan e-mailed to me that the Pacifics, the EP-5's, and passenger cars are a 'go'. The R&N set was the only item from the new catalog that was canceled.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Very good, thank you for the update! 😁

Bob Tufts in the SGaugian years ago said the K-5 Gilbert dies were shot, in 1958. Have no idea if Lionel can refurbish the original dies if they have them.

@Jerry Rubin posted:

Bob Tufts in the SGaugian years ago said the K-5 Gilbert dies were shot, in 1958. Have no idea if Lionel can refurbish the original dies if they have them.

Jerry, just curious, but why the interest in the K5 tooling? There are still plenty of the originals to be had.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

When does the  2021 Vol II Catalog come out?

I think Ryan said mid July.

@Former Member posted:

When does the  2021 Vol II Catalog come out?

Too soon?

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

MId July, hmm, is it time to start conjecturing what might be in it for S? I vote for a Daylight GS6!!!

@Former Member posted:

MId July, hmm, is it time to start conjecturing what might be in it for S? I vote for a Daylight GS6!!!

I'm keeping my expectations low.  Maybe the Mikado's.  I'm not anticipating a lot of new Flyer in the next catalog.

Rusty