3-D Printing of Train Parts

The 3-D printers are still a work in progress, and they even have medical applications regarding organ replication! We are in a "Brave New World", indeed!

Check out the thread regarding the replication of a K4 body casting on a $400 printer on this forum! Amazing!

Interesting approach.

This also requires that the user of the 3D printer has a 3D Card App that is compatible with the 3D printer.

That also begs to question, does the average model railroader (exceptions of course) possess CADD knowledge to design parts?

If you borrow from the Technology field where I work. The most successful venders setup online communities to warehouse and store 3rd party code modules that can be "snapped in" to the core technology platform. Once snapped in, the module extends the functionality of the core system.

To keep things from getting out of hand, the system developers instill a governing body to review the code modules submitted. Once approved, those modules are made available to the public via that online community.

For the Model Train world, this could be replicated if a body like OGR offered to host a CADD file repository online for all to share and exchange CADD files. A governing body could be setup and criteria for submission would need to be established in part, to ensure compliance with specs. Depending on the submission criteria, (Gauge, Brand, Model, NOS, Custom, etc.) that CADD file of the driver could be found by others looking to replicate.

Fees could be covered by pay for download. IF you elect to not pay, then what you download is what you get. If there are tweaks required, fix the CADD file, be a good sport and upload it back to the community as a pay-it-forward for others.

I hope someone does this soon, and we should find that toy train parts plummet in price. Many of us will be able to simply produce them at home. Perhaps one of us who has a high standing in TCA and/or knowledge about this process could officially propose it, and we could then get our parts relatively soon?

Um, I would suggest not so fast or soon. Low end 3D printers are clearly now in price ranges that a home hobbyist could own one, but the quality of parts that come out of these machines are of evaluation and form-fit-function quality, certainly not display or presentation quality, that would replicate the visual quality of injection molded plastic parts or machined or die-cast metal parts. I've made some 3D models of deteriorated castings from some McCoy Tinplate for form and fit, but for presentation quality, I sent those models out to a professional 3D printer. Their machines are far beyond the affordability of the hobbyist. And the price for professional 3D printed parts is usually pretty expensive. Will a time come where the hobbyist can 3D print presentation quality parts? I very much believe and hope that it will!!

The question of quality and authenticity arises with such replication, and a new set of ethics rules must necessarily emerge for serious collectors, when purchasing items employing these parts!

Tinplate Art posted:

The question of quality and authenticity arises with such replication, and a new set of ethics rules must necessarily emerge for serious collectors, when purchasing items employing these parts!

Really? Repro parts are now available for about every engine Lionel made in the pre war and post war period. Williams, MTH, Lionel and others have been reproducing some of these classics for years. What is the difference between a part that is stamped out or machined and one made by 3D printing?

I have been fabricating replacement parts since I was kid.

According to TCA guidelines restored items should be listed as such.

New Rules? Com'on.

Pete

Even conventional replacement parts vary in quality, and the newer 3-D printed parts certainly do, depending on the quality of the machine used to produce them. I am NOT opposed to the use of replacements, and have used them myself to restore units to operation, and NOT to produce a collectible. My comments regarding rules do not seem unreasonable, especially to the serious collector fraternity within our ranks, myself NOT being one.

Art, I doubt either of us will see a 3D printed part as good as a stamped part used to replace a stamped part. It takes hours to 3D print a part that takes 5 seconds to stamp out. As long as the Manufacturers and Repro parts guys have the dies to stamp out parts it will not be economically feasible to print the part.

Most collectors will be able to identify a reproduction from an original. The originals almost always have flaws. Paint runs or voids in the diecast camouflaged with thick paint. Put a Williams 671 Turbine next to an original Lionel. Not hard to pick which is which.

Pete

parts guys have the dies to stamp out parts therein lies the rub!  A simple 3d scan and a 3d printer can reproduce some parts that are NOT currently available from any source.  I can also upgrade the scanned part by doing a redraw in CADD to finish off the part.  The resulting part will in most cases not be cheaper, just available.  I have a 3d scanner and a 3d printer and have had for several years.  I make a ton of parts but very rarely do I make anything that I can already buy!  3d printing with metallic filament is currently available but the results from most home systems will not be what you are looking for.  It may be OK for a detail part but not as part of the running gear.  Third alternative, I can 3d print a part that is then used as part of a lost wax casting sort of setup.  Pouring hot metal into a mold with the 3d printed plastic part works 'almost' as good as lost wax.  Russ

I hope you’re following this 3D printed SD take place over in 2-Rail...

https://ogrforum.com/topic/my-sd40-2-in-3d

Forget replacement parts, we’re talking on-demand printing of non-mass produced models. 

"To the moon Alice!"

You can right a book on 3D printers and hobbies....but it will change daily.

Model car guys are getting GOOD usable parts out of $300 printers. A $300 printer will NOT print the metal like parts. Remember to print a part like a diesel F-3 body you need a printer with a table big enough to print 15" object, commercial printer. Also it may take 15 hours to print it....so mass production is limited. (3D body 1 per 15 hours....injected plastic body 6 per minute)

3D printers will impact our hobby. But it's not as simple as many think. Want a taste??? Download the free 3D software and design a very simple part. 

It will take time but maybe in the future the 3d printers will be better and become faster. I think casting a copy of the part you need it great, just use a low melting metal that you can cast or cast in plastic resin.

Tinplate Art posted:

Even conventional replacement parts vary in quality, and the newer 3-D printed parts certainly do, depending on the quality of the machine used to produce them. I am NOT opposed to the use of replacements, and have used them myself to restore units to operation, and NOT to produce a collectible. My comments regarding rules do not seem unreasonable, especially to the serious collector fraternity within our ranks, myself NOT being one.

 If you can't tell a difference, there isn't one

  The same rules would apply for a 3d part as any re-pop. We don't grade re-pop part quality. We may note thatbit is a replacement part, but folks don't often  inspect the quality of replacement parts and then base a grade on the individual parts makers quality.

Maybe this is a bit immature in thinking...

when prototypes like UP steamers, 611 and T-1 Trust don’t possess NOS replacement parts. They are fabricated and no one seems to mind.

In fact, the overall value of those locomotives increase...because they are not collectibles. They are doing what they were designed to do. Provide a smile through Service, safety and positive sentiment.

That is why they are deemed priceless and irreplaceable at any cost.

Just like our trains we own, operate, trade and discuss.

Nodding my engineer cap to each of you.

I'm the guy that posted that picture of the Std Gauge K4 boiler. My printer is primarily a plastic printer, haven't investigated any metal filled filament, but now I must! The quality of the print is 'pretty good', and requires a fair amount of sanding and finishing to look 'great', but I paid a guy to make the model (pretty reasonable), and then set it to print and came back 2 days later. Making something not available is the exciting part. The cheap scanners aren't that great yet, but improving, so reproducing a physical object is a challenge.

The standard gauge GG1 I'm printing now was from a free download. Some modification to the models were required to make it work as a model train, but it looks pretty nice so far. Thanks to some Russian guy, I have a very nice model. Cost of the materials to print - under $20 on my $400 printer. I'll have to build the mechanisms and put it all together.  Thinking about using the print as a pattern and getting it cast in metal.  I have found a bunch of useable CAD models on line that I've been able to rescale or modify to use on these engines. My thanks to those that were gracious enough to make them available. I'm not a CAD expert, but use a couple of different open source programs to modify the models. Some great free programs also available for processing the models for printing (can rescale, slice into pieces (needed that for both big engines)), then post processing optimally for my specific printer and the material I'm using.

I have to say, there is some finesse required in setting up the machine and getting consistent prints. They don't all work out, but you get to know your machine, and with groups on line (one on facebook SPECIFICALLY for my printer), can not only optimize but continuously improve the print with the experience of many other owners.

Just having lots of fun with it. Has run for 4 days this week!

Jim

ChiloquinRuss posted:

parts guys have the dies to stamp out parts therein lies the rub!  A simple 3d scan and a 3d printer can reproduce some parts that are NOT currently available from any source.  I can also upgrade the scanned part by doing a redraw in CADD to finish off the part.  The resulting part will in most cases not be cheaper, just available.  I have a 3d scanner and a 3d printer and have had for several years.  I make a ton of parts but very rarely do I make anything that I can already buy!  3d printing with metallic filament is currently available but the results from most home systems will not be what you are looking for.  It may be OK for a detail part but not as part of the running gear.  Third alternative, I can 3d print a part that is then used as part of a lost wax casting sort of setup.  Pouring hot metal into a mold with the 3d printed plastic part works 'almost' as good as lost wax.  Russ

Russ - what material do you use as the 'lost wax'? I see that a wax filament is now available, but very finicky to print.

Jim

Printing speed will always be limited by how fast the material can stick together, and how fast it can be reliably applied,  I think stamping and molds are here to stay for a long time, apart from specialty items.

"very finicky to print", I have just used regular pla plastic.  I haven't tried wax but that seems counter productive to me (a hot printer element oozing melted wax?).  The machines are like a pen plotter (remember ink on paper) but instead of a pen it has'hot glue' gun to 'write' with.  It draws a 'layer' then rises very slightly and repeats over and over and . . . I think as a hobbyist the coolest part of owning one of these machines is there may be a detail item that I just can't find anywhere.  So I make one, not for resale, not to show how cool the machine is but to add to my scenery on my layout.  I have a very early scanner, a recent scanner and a cell phone scanner app that came out a month ago.  Each scanner / software generation is better that the past but . . . we aren't there yet!    Russ

Curiously, i have a situation where i need an american flyer s gauge coupler made. i have a k-325 hudson the 1st version with a bolt on coupler. due to my lack of attention i shattered it with another loco.  these are not to be found anywhere. so i'm wondering if and where i could get 2 produced. i'd never try it myself but might let a pro do it for me if its not too costly thanks joe

@CH posted:

For the Model Train world, this could be replicated if a body like OGR offered to host a CADD file repository online for all to share and exchange CADD files. A governing body could be setup and criteria for submission would need to be established in part, to ensure compliance with specs. Depending on the submission criteria, (Gauge, Brand, Model, NOS, Custom, etc.) that CADD file of the driver could be found by others looking to replicate.

This is already in motion. OGR has a repository. It's not geared toward replacement parts specifically, but replacement parts can be uploaded. @Dennis-LaRock is running it himself.

Mass production with 3D printers isn't really possible at the moment. There's an inverse relationship between quality of part and the speed of the print. Some of the fine prints I have take 24 hours or more. Other items that I print (that are for function over form) take 20 minutes.

I will say that 3D printing brings an enormous amount of power to modelers in any form. The software is a bit of a stumbling block but Solidworks is supposedly coming out with a subscription CAD program this year (about $100 a year) and the freeware CAD stuff is getting better all the time. Software aside, your own ambition is the only thing that holds you back. FDM printed parts can be snap together, fit together, glue together, etc. You can do a lot of stuff if you design accordingly. I hope that metal filaments can give nicer surfaces than plastic filaments. That would be cool!

I can't comment on "parts", but Jim Waterman did a fantastic job "printing" up and assembling for me the "lounge" portion of The Milwaukee Road's famous "Skytop" lounge observation car.  Without question, this car is the pièce de résistance in my 10-car Standard Gauge Olympian Hiawatha train.

If I am up to it, I am now considering driving this car to York this Fall and running it behind a Lionel/MTH "Super" 381, a Lionel/MTH 381 and 9 other Waterman-built Olympian Hiawatha cars.

Jim used original blueprints from The Milwaukee Road's Archieves to build each of the 10 cars in the Olympian Hiawatha consist.

Bob Nelson

One word: ELEGANT!

There are a few unavailable couplers in the Repository... hopefully, many more unavailable parts will become available.  Look under  Parts: Conversions, Upgrades or Unavailable in the Catalog.

While not applicable to the OP's request: There is an S Gauge Coupler Conversion to Kadee part in the Repository... YES, the O-Scale Repository has S Gauge Items...

S Gauge Coupler Conversion to Kadee by Carl (Carl Tuveson)

American Models trucks for Kadee couplers to allow a quick change from Claw type to Kadee type couplers without mounting the box on the car frame.  http://www.tuveson.com/Coupler...kadee-converter.html

Can anyone give me the name of a professional shop that I might discuss some  possible copies of a very old part with?

thanks!

john

I worked with a HS robotics team as a sponsor/responsible adult. I secured them a 3D printer and they learned how to create and print the things that we needed. These parts were good to use on the fly, but would ultimately fail under duress.
Closer and kinda cool, but not there for “everyday person” yet.

I am in need of several replacement parts for a set of Lionel SOUTHERN PACIFIC "SHASTA DAYLIGHT" 18" ALUMINUM STREAMLINED PASSENGER CAR 4-PACK SKU: 6-35445.  As the readers are probably aware, there was a design flaw in the manufacturing of these cars that causes the truck assemblies to disintegrate and literally crumble.  I have a buddy trying to replicate the part on a 3-D printer but he is struggling with getting the proportions correct.  I have attached a photo of the original part and 3-D part. Does anyone know of a source for successfully printing replacement parts on a 3-D that you would feel comfortable recommending, thanks.

Truck sides seem complex but they are symmetrical.

the first step is getting the axle placement correct. I next import pictures of the truck into my 3D design program.

then layout rectangles and ellipse shapes over the pictures to form 2D images of the truck components. From there, extrude the shapes to 3D. Again using the pictures and a digital caliper to arrive at the depths to extrude.

I’ve seen the work that can be done with 3D printing, and it can be extremely nice. Alan’s design work looks fantastic. For now, if I needed something done I would go to somebody like him first before trying to do it on my own.

Jeff C

Thank you for your input, Alan is this something you would care to tackle.