3 things York could learn from The Big E

Art

I commented on your video.  Unfortunately the biggest hurdle is the rumored agreement the EDTCA has with the PA tax man keeping it primarily a member's only meet with the exception of the vendor halls.

Have you shared these ideas with ED? 

Re #3 - opening all buildings to the public on Saturday.  The reason that non-members can't go into the member halls is rooted in a sales tax situation with the state and township.  Back in the 1980s, ED reached a compromise with the tax authorities regarding not requiring non-dealer members to collect and remit sales tax.  If non-dealer members are required to collect tax (paperwork!), it will likely kill the meet.  ED could revisit this with the tax authorities, but doing so would run the risk of losing the existing compromise.  I understand ED's reluctance to open that can of worms.   

@MartyE posted:

Art

I commented on your video.  Unfortunately the biggest hurdle is the rumored agreement the EDTCA has with the PA tax man keeping it primarily a member's only meet with the exception of the vendor halls.

At one point, the letter was posted somewhere - can't remember if it was on TCA's or ED's website, or maybe in the TCA newsletter.  I recall reading it.

Please don't post comments regarding the legitimacy of the tax compromise, whether it's right/wrong/unjust - it is what it is, and replaying the arguments again will just lead to getting the thread closed.

Move the meet to Delaware.  No sales tax!

My take on this:

1.  The EDTCA has put layouts inside Orange Hall (not just in the vestibule area) in the past when there was space available.  They can't put layouts in most of the member halls because members who have had their tables for two consecutive meets are guaranteed the same space/location until they have voluntarily given up that space or failed to pay for that space for two consecutive meets.  Similar rules apply to the public halls -- the EDTCA is not going to kick someone out of their space to re-arrange for adding layouts.  There is plenty of room in Purple and Black Halls for layouts, and since they are in the middle of the fairgrounds, there really is no excuse for missing them.

2.  Increasing the party-like atmosphere -- York already is a big party, but there is a lot of room for improvement.  EDTCA currently has a welcoming party on Tuesday nights, the ice cream social on Friday night, and the coffee and donuts on Saturday morning, plus the various interest group meetings taking place during meet hours.  Outside of the EDTCA's efforts are lots of gatherings from non-TCA groups, like the OGR Forum gathering, LCCA gathering, DCS User Group, and others, and then there are local club open houses and other events (Clem's Primer is invaluable in finding out about some of these events).  They certainly could get more food trucks involved, and maybe they could partner with the fairgrounds or a third party to host a food truck event to run during the event.  I know that they prohibit alcohol on the fairgrounds during the meet, but they do have beer and wine at the Tuesday welcoming party, so I assume that it is an insurance / liability issue and not a fairgrounds policy issue.  Maybe if there were a third party food truck event, it could include local microbreweries... (I know I wouldn't mind a craft brew or two during the afternoons ).

3.  The tax issue has already been mentioned and debated (twice a year like clockwork, year after year, it seems), but it is still very easy for anyone who is either a first time attendee or only attended the public halls on previous visits to get full access by registering as a guest in the Silver Hall.  It can only happen once, but it is perfect for someone who will only be able to go one time, or for the person who wants to see what the rest of it is all about, after that, all that is required is TCA membership.  One thing the EDTCA could do is offer the one-time guest registrations for Saturday only at $5 per adult with kids being free.

A couple of years ago, I counted the vendor tables at both The Big E and York  (based on published hall charts of both venues) and found that York had double the number of tables than The Big E -- York had 2400+ tables to The Big E's 1200+ -- and if you consider that The Big E is all scales, the ratio of O gauge to other scales would be much higher at York.

Andy

@Andy Hummell posted:

My take on this:

1.  The EDTCA has put layouts inside Orange Hall (not just in the vestibule area) in the past when there was space available.  They can't put layouts in most of the member halls because members who have had their tables for two consecutive meets are guaranteed the same space/location until they have voluntarily given up that space or failed to pay for that space for two consecutive meets.  Similar rules apply to the public halls -- the EDTCA is not going to kick someone out of their space to re-arrange for adding layouts.  There is plenty of room in Purple and Black Halls for layouts, and since they are in the middle of the fairgrounds, there really is no excuse for missing them.

2.  Increasing the party-like atmosphere -- York already is a big party, but there is a lot of room for improvement.  EDTCA currently has a welcoming party on Tuesday nights, the ice cream social on Friday night, and the coffee and donuts on Saturday morning, plus the various interest group meetings taking place during meet hours.  Outside of the EDTCA's efforts are lots of gatherings from non-TCA groups, like the OGR Forum gathering, LCCA gathering, DCS User Group, and others, and then there are local club open houses and other events (Clem's Primer is invaluable in finding out about some of these events).  They certainly could get more food trucks involved, and maybe they could partner with the fairgrounds or a third party to host a food truck event to run during the event.  I know that they prohibit alcohol on the fairgrounds during the meet, but they do have beer and wine at the Tuesday welcoming party, so I assume that it is an insurance / liability issue and not a fairgrounds policy issue.  Maybe if there were a third party food truck event, it could include local microbreweries... (I know I wouldn't mind a craft brew or two during the afternoons ).

3.  The tax issue has already been mentioned and debated (twice a year like clockwork, year after year, it seems), but it is still very easy for anyone who is either a first time attendee or only attended the public halls on previous visits to get full access by registering as a guest in the Silver Hall.  It can only happen once, but it is perfect for someone who will only be able to go one time, or for the person who wants to see what the rest of it is all about, after that, all that is required is TCA membership.  One thing the EDTCA could do is offer the one-time guest registrations for Saturday only at $5 per adult with kids being free.

A couple of years ago, I counted the vendor tables at both The Big E and York  (based on published hall charts of both venues) and found that York had double the number of tables than The Big E -- York had 2400+ tables to The Big E's 1200+ -- and if you consider that The Big E is all scales, the ratio of O gauge to other scales would be much higher at York.

Andy

Excellent summary and explanation, and great idea regarding a microbrew truck.  I would vote for Troegs.

Good reminder about local clubs - I always enjoy the Red Lion layout.  And a shameless plug for Standard Gauge Module Association (SGMA) - we take over the black hall with a large layout and a great meeting with show and tell on Friday morning.  It's a great place to take a break, watch some trains, and see the latest creations.