3356 Horse Car - Is this the correct door?

It is correct as-is. The front door only opens half-way. Whether the door is half open or closed, it should not interfere with the plunger assembly.

I have a junk 3356 shell gathering dust on the workbench. One door has a tab, and the other does, but it is a different spot than yours, and allows the door to open all the way.

Chuck Sartor posted:

It is correct as-is. The front door only opens half-way. Whether the door is half open or closed, it should not interfere with the plunger assembly.

I agree, it shouldn't - unfortunately, it does - check this photo. Imagine that you are standing directly over the top of the car, while it is standing up right. Then lift the shell upward and lay it on its side next to the car, perfectly centered end-to-end, laying with the front door face down. That's the view from this photo.;

You can see in the photo that with the door in the closed position, the plastic door tab sits directly over a small tab area on the brass/bronze lift mechanism, preventing it from being pulled upward. Do I have this assembled wrong?  I know Lionel generally didn't insert miscellaneous tabs for no reason - this tab serves some sort of purpose - which suggests I have it assembled incorrectly. Why limit this door to opening only half way?

Steamer posted:

I have a junk 3356 shell gathering dust on the workbench. One door has a tab, and the other does, but it is a different spot than yours, and allows the door to open all the way.

 

Steamer - not clear, are you saying that one door has a tab and the other doesn't? Or are you saying both doors have tabs?

Interesting view in the bottom pic - your shell appears to have a vertical rib - mine does not - on either side.

That's not a bug, it's a feature. It's a lock to keep the horses from being unloaded inadvertently when on an actuator track for another accessory.   The operation sequence is a) arrive at corral,  b) open the door to unlock the floor, c) unload the horses.    

Mitch 

IIRC you don't touch the front (chute side) door,  it just sits there. The rear door has the tab to stop the animals?

(I could be mistaken, bought one for each of our nieces and nephews, haven't had them apart in years!:-)

BobbyD posted:

IIRC you don't touch the front (chute side) door,  it just sits there. The rear door has the tab to stop the animals?

(I could be mistaken, bought one for each of our nieces and nephews, haven't had them apart in years!:-)

Right.  The front door is balanced and opens automatically when the solenoid starts vibrating.

(Just tore one down and overhauled it a year or so ago.)  

Mitch 

M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

That's not a bug, it's a feature. It's a lock to keep the horses from being unloaded inadvertently when on an actuator track for another accessory.   The operation sequence is a) arrive at corral,  b) open the door to unlock the floor, c) unload the horses.    

Mitch 

Hey Mitch, thanks for jumping in! Reading this manual, it says nothing about either opening the front door as part of the operation sequence on pg. 9, or waiting for the buzzing to open it for you, which it does not do anyway on my car - I tried it, and I have adjusted my buzzing to the max manually and at 15v. It only talks about the rear door on pg. 10 and the need to decide if you want the horses trapped in the car or allowed to run through it!

Of course, the manual is for a newer version, and I'm fairly certain this is a PW car, so maybe there's a difference? Any chance you would have a copy of the original PW Operation manual?

M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

BobbyD posted:

IIRC you don't touch the front (chute side) door,  it just sits there. The rear door has the tab to stop the animals?

(I could be mistaken, bought one for each of our nieces and nephews, haven't had them apart in years!:-)

Right.  The front door is balanced and opens automatically when the solenoid starts vibrating.

(Just tore one down and overhauled it a year or so ago.)  

Mitch 

Are you referring to the front CENTER door opening automatically? Or either of the chute doors on both ends? There is no mechanism that I can see that would push the front CENTER door either direction when the solenoid is operating.

BobbyD posted:

IIRC you don't touch the front (chute side) door,  it just sits there. The rear door has the tab to stop the animals?

(I could be mistaken, bought one for each of our nieces and nephews, haven't had them apart in years!:-)

That would seem logically correct, at least in the way I see things. So why is there a tab near the inside bottom of the front CENTER door? I'm missing something.

I can easily fix this problem by lopping off the plastic tab centered near the lower edge of the FRONT door. Everything will work, and the door will slide fully open. So why all the fuss? Cuz, like many of you, I want to know everything I can about this stuff, and right now I have a tab on a door that is causing two problems (preventing the solenoid from lifting and not allowing the Front door to fully open (which it appears it should as seen in this manual). I am missing something, just not sure what?

My first response was that perhaps somebody had mounted the REAR center door on the FRONT, and vice versa. But there is physically no way for that to work on the rear - the tab doesn't even come close to touching the runway stop inside the car. And the doors can't be upside down because the pattern of the strips of wood siding wouldn't match on the exterior.

Does anyone have the owner's manual for the original 3356 Horse Car?

I am revising my reply. Mitch is somewhat correct. The sliding door on the side with the drop doors when fully closed locks the drop doors. Slide to half way and that moves the tab out of the way so the doors can drop. I not sure what he means about the front door being balanced, unless he is referring to the ramp doors. I think when Lionel LTI  reissued this car they deleted the tab on the front door as not necessary.

Chuck Sartor posted:

I am revising my reply. Mitch is somewhat correct. The sliding door on the side with the drop doors when fully closed locks the drop doors. Slide to half way and that moves the tab out of the way so the doors can drop. I not sure what he means about the front door being balanced, unless he is referring to the ramp doors. I think when Lionel LTI  reissued this car they deleted the tab on the front door as not necessary.

Thanks Chuck, that makes sense. But why have the capability to lock the drop doors in place? Well, to prevent damage in shipping or handling, I suppose. 

Stick a fork in me, I'm done! Thanks ya'll for the sharing of your knowledge and observations!!!!

This may help

From my memories of tearing down and rebuilding a 3356 about a year ago, the rear door, when closed,  uses the tab to push on the side of the inside ramp,  keeping the horses in place.  In order to unload the horses,  the door needs to be open.  

To the best of my knowledge,  the front center door is ornamental and has no effect on operations.  If both the front center and rear center doors have tabs, this is in error and a plain front center door should be installed.  If the rear door is plain and the front door has a tab,  switch them around.   

The two ramp doors are the ones that are balanced,  and should drop when the vibrator solenoid starts buzzing.   This also drives the horses along the unlocked track.  

Hope this clears things up!   

Mitch

This is a front door for sale and it has the tab yours does

This is a rear door for sale with the animal stop tab on it.

This is a 3356 body for sale and it has the animal stop tab rear door but not the front door with tab that yours does?

It really detracts from the illusion if the front door must be open & view that unsightly mechanism to operate the car.

The purpose of the locked runway doors is so the car does not start operating when you uncouple the car from the train. Remember when you push the uncouple button on the UCS or 6019 uncoupling track, that also energizes the control rails for the older electromagnet style couplers. I'm thinking when the engineers at LTI re-issued this car they forgot about the purpose of the locking tab on that door.

one of my doors on the junker has a vertical tab...the other door has no tab, and I don't see where it ever did

To summarize, there were at least two versions, old & newer

Old version - had a tab on the inside of the front door, the purpose of which was to lock down the solenoid to prevent accidental discharge of horses while coupling/uncoupling. Also helped to keep them in the car while the car was being held upside down by a 9 year old. The tab also limited the ability to fully open that door, although opening the door at all revealed the coil and lift mech, and IMHO was not a desirable thing to do.

Newer version - did not have the front door tab, and the door opened fully making Lionel's documented adjustment of the chute doors much easier.

Thanks to all who helped fill in this little gap. For some of us geeksters, the understanding of how things work is the real trip