3d Printers and our hobby. A review from a guy who has found a $199 solution that works!

John

Awesome review and write-up. Thank you.

OK so I know you are wondering why only two little items?  Well I've been playing with it and seeing what it could do.   Then I found a Bender file.  And I needed a new desk toy.  So.... 

I'll get back to train stuff now guys I promise!

Notice the "error" on the right arm?  Sometimes these printers (even the expensive ones) mess up.  This took three and a half hours to print.  The girl and hydrant were more in the 20 minute range.   

Looks good, and it's available on Amazon right now.

One of the best uses I have ever seen of this forum.  Right up there with the priceless technical discussions with grj, ggg, Stan, prof, and countless others that share their expertise with us.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Looks good, and it's available on Amazon right now.

Yeah John they had been out for a month but mine came in this last batch.  I figured, for $200 I'd give it a shot and I'm glad I did!  Maybe if we get enough guys working with these we can set up an area here to share the OBJ files for items that are scaled and easy to print and use on our layouts! 

Now wouldn't THAT be awesome!

A friend of mine whom I gave two hydrants to has already painted them red and placed them on her layout!  So here they are!  Painted they look AWESOME!  And the printer got the rivets on the base and top too!  Pretty good if you ask me.  

I used a 3D Printer here at work to print out the columns for my Passenger Station:

Another thought.  If you need a large number of a single item and depending on the size of the object you want to make, you could make one, then make a mold of that and replicate it in plaster or other medium to save on cost. 

GREAT POST!!!  I jumped on the laser cutter pretty early and feel I have mastered it.......and I've been watching the 3D thing since the start. Input art is still the biggest hurdel....but even that seems like nay become more easy. Thanks

Very informative John.  From looking at the Amazon page Gunrunner provided it appears there are different size filaments, what size filament did you use?

This printer ONLY uses 1.75 size.  Other printers use other sizes.  Now, the printer can use different kinds of filaments like PLA, or ABS, or whatever, but PLA is the easiest to use and most forgiving.  So START WITH IT!

What is a produced item cost such as the lady or hydrant? I would think it is less expensive to buy a ready made product. The printer seems ideal for all the zinc rot parts that have been failing or no longer available. Still an interesting product.

Pretty cool.  Although probably pricier than Amazon, Micromark also offers various filiments.

Since it was not provided with the Lionel 2 truck shay, I hoped that Lionel would consider to offer aftermarket the 0-31 coupler adaptor bracket mount for the 2 truck Shay that K-Line designed and provided when K-Line originally made the Shay.  I would guess that a 3D printed resin equivalent would serve the same purpose as the original metal version.  Possibly could also be printed w/ a metal 3D printer.  Many train hobby spare parts could be created on an ala carte basis.

Great info, Thank you

DMASSO posted:

What is a produced item cost such as the lady or hydrant? I would think it is less expensive to buy a ready made product. The printer seems ideal for all the zinc rot parts that have been failing or no longer available. Still an interesting product.

When I was considering a 3d printer I figured the cost of material to make a person would be about the same as buying the person from Arista or whoever.... boy was I wrong!  The part probably contains less than a dime's worth of filament.  So yeah you've got to consider the cost of the printer, and a spool of filament.   I'd have to produce a LOT of items to break even.  The return on investment really comes from making things you cannot readily buy yet.  Such as, the fire hydrant or an arcade machine?  Who makes one?  I'm sure someone does but they probably charge $5 per hydrant?  And is it really scale?  Cause using this you can shrink or enlarge ANYTHING you have a file for! Then there is the replacement parts possibilities.... it's only a matter of time before someone replicates an MTH snowplow front end.  Heck they are already making entire railcars using these things!  Then there are the people you can make.  Sure, there are a BUNCH of premade people out there.  But so many people on these free sites are producing scanned images of real people that you could populate your entire layout with different people that look nothing alike!  

One thing I'm going to be doing is building interiors for some of my MTH buildings!  I built a Starbucks a while back, but using this I"m going to redo the inside to look like a real one!  Imagine that!  

Lets kill a false notion here guys....... cost of the filament!  Some of you are looking at filament that costs $30 for a pound of it on Micromark.   Some show LOTS more!  Lets be clear!  On Amazon you can buy any color of plain PLA filament, 2.2 lbs, for just $22.  

The other filaments you see that cost lots of money are specialized ones for high heat applications or for making machine parts.  Some filaments are carbon impregnated for weight and strength, some are glow in the dark, some are magnatized, some are wood infused!  You can use those with this printer, but we are talking about plastic parts for our layouts!  Not industrialized test models or real life medical devices!  We just need the cheap PLA plastic 1.75 filament.  Amazon (I'm a Prime member so free shipping) sells it for $22 bucks for over 2 pounds!  That'll print a lot of things!

I think for the price it is worth it for learning a new technology.
This could be e entry level aproach to a new technology. Imagine if you invest later on for a scanner to produce/duplicate bought items or items that are no longer made.
I just googled some sites for free downloads of items and it look promising.

It's time to start saving.

A couple additional comments to consider on this:

1) Google offers Sketchup a FREE CAD program (https://www.sketchup.com/). There is a learning curve, but this works extremely well. If you don't have a printer of your own, many public libraries have installed "maker spaces" that will let you use their printer for a few bucks, these also have lasers and other cool toys as well.

2) The Microsoft Xbox 360 visual game control, the small box with two big "eyes" that sits under the TV, is a 3D scanner. There are more than a few videos on YouTube showing how to use it has such. A friend scanned himself and his family, even the dog, and printed bobble head size versions -- again very cool but a bit creepy at the same time.

Lastly, there is a site call Upwork (https://www.upwork.com) where designers from around the world bid on freelance design projects, this is an option if there is something you just have to have, but don't have the time or talents to create the design file yourself. The key is to have detailed and specific requirements, images, drawings, specs if possible, of the item -- you can't just post I need a design file for a Maza6 and bang.

In terms of cost per item, what about something like tombstone signals, a nice set with LEDs are $40 to $60 each signal, the LEDs are less than $1, so that leaves $39 per signal to pay for the printer, the spool of plastic, and the design time (if needed), on a layout with a dozen signals -- one can buy the whole set-up with professional CAD work cheaper than the available product. I get that these cost what they do because of the plastic injection molding, by the way, but this is alternative choice.

Good luck and have fun.....my 9 year old printed a whistle in class last term, if a 9 year old can do it, so can you.

Right now I'm printing these girders for my Milwaukee Road trestle. I will need 44 of them before I'm done. It will take three of these for one pole and it takes four poles to make one section, plus cross beams. I'm using HO girders for the smaller cross beams. Don

If you dont mind sanding PLA or FMD printers are fine just not as smooth as a laser (or DLP) SLA that prints at 25mu.

And there are 25mu and 5Mu PLA printers. 

The PLA is really more of a 2D printer that moves vertically; so the inter-layer strength is much weaker than an isotropic print from a SLA printer.

Cost is the biggest difference between the two; while a PLA printer( not 25mu) are in the few hundred bucks range and SLA printer is in the $3500-4000 range. Materials in a PLA printer are  about $30 a roll of plastic rod while a n SLP printer requires Resin ($100-$200 a litre) and a consumable build tank at $60.

If you are considering an SLP printer FormLabs 2 has the best product BUT there is a new SLA printer coming out (it's in Kickstarter called MilkShake  $3,910.00) that prints resin TOP-DOWN much differently than the FormLabs2 that prints TOP-UP.

Let's face it, we are at the six month baby stag of 3-D printers. Soon you will be able to set an object on the printer 360 camera and no more programming. Just print. I print things I can't get in O scale, like the girders. I also had a water tower with a broken top. I printed one and even made it a little bigger. Don

"So therein lies the first problem with 3d printers. You cannot just print anything on a whim because you have to have the file to do it! While many files can be had for free if you really look around the web.... if you want something specific you might have to make it yourself. This right here knocks a bunch of people off the 3d bandwagon."

This will be the stopping point for many of us.

I was a draftsman back in the 1970s, paper and pencil type.

I've tried a couple of programs for use with these 3D printers and it's like learning a new language.

I'd love to use a 3D printer to make parts like Boxcar doors and ends, passenger car seats, and other parts that aren't easily found or available.

I would enjoy being on the leading edge of the O-scale wave but I just don't have it in me anymore.

scale rail posted:

Let's face it, we are at the six month baby stag of 3-D printers. Soon you will be able to set an object on the printer 360 camera and no more programming. Just print. I print things I can't get in O scale, like the girders. I also had a water tower with a broken top. I printed one and even made it a little bigger. Don

Did you make the CAD file for that yourself Don?  (or did you maybe have access to something higher tech to scan a good part in the manner you suggest?) 

That's obviously a very specific part for a Lionel piece, so I'm guessing finding a file on the 'net via the methods mentioned earlier in the thread would not be terribly successful (maybe I'm guessing wrong).

While I don't have abilities/access to CAD generation tools, I can envision the math not being too hard to generate the octagonal shapes in 2 dimensions, but I'm sure I would need quite a few tries to make it 3d and get the slope of the roof right.

-Dave

It's a file but with a lot of help from my friend up the street that is a programmer. In fact he made an all new program for me. We did a copy of a brass block signal I have. I made about twenty for my new layout. Even added more detail. They are about $50 or $60 in brass. Almost nothing in plastic. It still really never saves you money. $2000 plus upgrade for a good printer but it's sure nice to turn it on at night and have eight block signals bases in the morning. Don

I think the $199 printer would do those bases pretty good.  Not worth the extra $2000 to me!  I've been printing people and it's doing pretty darn good!  On structural printing I think it would be near perfect!

Bob Delbridge

I'd love to use a 3D printer to make parts like Boxcar doors and ends, passenger car seats, and other parts that aren't easily found or available.

 

If no one has made the part then 3D printing would be the way to go but if you want to make copies of something you have or can get then casting is another option and resolution is even better.

Here some resin cast parts.

Pete

Norton posted:

Bob Delbridge

I'd love to use a 3D printer to make parts like Boxcar doors and ends, passenger car seats, and other parts that aren't easily found or available.

 

If no one has made the part then 3D printing would be the way to go but if you want to make copies of something you have or can get then casting is another option and resolution is even better.

Here some resin cast parts.

 

Pete

Thanks Pete, nice looking parts!

 I've done some casting/molding in 1/6 scale but nothing yet in O-scale.  If I can find the doors I want to copy on the cars I currently have I'll give it a try.

I see a great future for this. But, I'm not ready yet.

Please don't ask me how much my first scanner cost me as I won't admit to it!

This is the future! Hope I last long enough to see it mature a bit.

Not to highjack the original intent of your thread, Tackindy; maybe I'm a bit of a pessimist, but while you and most others see a rosy future for hobbyists from low cost 3-D printers and scanners, I foresee possible bleakness for some small cottage industries "calling it quits" because of the same unfortunate occurrence happening to them from 3-D scanning as has taken place with regular photo scanners, cd recorders, and dvd recorders, etc. Some people will unscrupulously use the technology to scan original, commercially produced items a manufacturer  or professional photographer took the time, effort , and resources to produce and rip it off with  "homemade boot leg" copies. If this eventually happens on a wide scale, then will it any longer be worthwhile for those ma and pa cottage industry companies or even larger niche companies as Arista, etc. to stay in business creating "originals" only to then possibly have their efforts cloned by "bootleg" users of 3-D scanners and printers?

Got several alerts...if you want to buy or sell 3d parts, then use our for sale/trade forum...this is a discussion thread lets keep it that way...

Thanks,

Alan

Holy moly.... ok guys I'll see about printing up a batch of them.  No promises!  But if I do I'll let you know.  I know if I wasn't the one testing out 3d printing and saw someone else produce some pretty cool hydrants I'd jump on it too!  Ha ha.  

Ok, as for OGaugeGuy's point of "will it kill the cottage industry....".  They said the same thing about CD Burners when they came out.  Did it kill the market?  No.  But it did shift it for sure.  Here's the thing.  This isn't super easy to do and 3d printing parts is not as high quality as professionally produced parts and models.  It may get there one day but not right now!  And as some guys above have mentioned you can spend THOUSANDS on a nice printer and get marginally better quality, but my post and point is about a printer within reach of the hobbyist who wants to play around and produce stuff for their own.  

So today I found another site that seems to have a BUNCH of good stuff for free download.  3dmag.org/en/market.  I haven't tested any prints from there but they have a bunch of good stuff it appears.  I was mainly searching for "women" as that seems to be a weak area in the figures produced for our hobby.  Now I have a WARNING for you.  Any site with 3d files will have lots of nude figures and such.  You are delving into a realm full of perverse developers who are making some very risque figurines to print!  I go through and found a good number of attractive but fully clothed models like people you would see walking down the streets and in the park, not behind closed doors!  It could be funny to produce some of the models you can find but you wouldn't want a child to see it let alone a wife!!!  So beware guys and gals!  

OGR Ad Man posted:

Got several alerts...if you want to buy or sell 3d parts, then use our for sale/trade forum...this is a discussion thread lets keep it that way...

Thanks,

Alan

Point taken!  I'm not looking to sell parts so I'll not offer anymore here!  Thanks!

Alan has a good point.  If you see someone on here with something you just feel like you must have, email them!  This discussion isn't about selling things.  

We found postwar boxcar doors on Thingiverse and they work. Every day more designs are popping up, so if you can't find what you're looking for, keep checking every few days.

Also, most 3D printers can scale projects, so nearly any model railroad accessory can be shrunk or enlarged to fit your layout.

THANK GOODNESS for those vigilant reporters that reported our casual conversation. I will now retreat to my safe space and color in my color book until I feel it's safe to return. 

John thanks for your review and insight into 3D printing. 

Becky, Tom & Gabe Morgan posted:

We found postwar boxcar doors on Thingiverse and they work. Every day more designs are popping up, so if you can't find what you're looking for, keep checking every few days.

Also, most 3D printers can scale projects, so nearly any model railroad accessory can be shrunk or enlarged to fit your layout.

The Cura software that is free, also comes with the printer, scales up and down.  I haven't printed anything in its original scale yet!  All of the figures and items I've done are shrunk down using the free software.   

OGR Ad Man posted:

Got several alerts...if you want to buy or sell 3d parts, then use our for sale/trade forum...this is a discussion thread lets keep it that way...

Thanks,

Alan

it was just a question.

because this thread is not in the sale/trade section!!!

Can you post a photo of an object with support material?  I'm used to the 3D printers at work that have a separate support material that washes away in a chemical bath.

Thanks for the thread John,  this is one area I've been looking to possibly get into for repair parts and my own designs

Terry Danks posted:

I see a great future for this. But, I'm not ready yet.

Please don't ask me how much my first scanner cost me as I won't admit to it!

This is the future! Hope I last long enough to see it mature a bit.

ogaugeguy posted:

Not to highjack the original intent of your thread, Tackindy; maybe I'm a bit of a pessimist, but while you and most others see a rosy future for hobbyists from low cost 3-D printers and scanners, I foresee possible bleakness for some small cottage industries "calling it quits" because of the same unfortunate occurrence happening to them from 3-D scanning as has taken place with regular photo scanners, cd recorders, and dvd recorders, etc. Some people will unscrupulously use the technology to scan original, commercially produced items a manufacturer  or professional photographer took the time, effort , and resources to produce and rip it off with  "homemade boot leg" copies. If this eventually happens on a wide scale, then will it any longer be worthwhile for those ma and pa cottage industry companies or even larger niche companies as Arista, etc. to stay in business creating "originals" only to then possibly have their efforts cloned by "bootleg" users of 3-D scanners and printers?

I'm glad to see some of you folks plunging ahead into this technology, but I candidly admit it's not for me.  And I have absolutely no interest in heading down this path.  The general public tends to not acknowledge the efforts early companies put into bringing this technology into the mainstream.  And once the technology hits the mainstream, all bets are off and bootlegging runs rampant because folks just like "playing" with this stuff for their own needs.

Secondly, I've been down this road before with large-format and wide-format printers in the professional photography world.  It was exciting at first.  But at the end of the day, it wasn't the business model for me.  Printing large prints only to have a small issue rear its head near the end of a large print job effectively ruined the entire print.  So one always needs to factor in ALL the costs (not just the price of the printer, but supplies/materials/time too) when determining an accurate ROI.  For me, I decided to have my wide-format prints and wall art produced by a professional print lab who specialized in those types of products.

And I suspect, that's just the kind of guy I am here too.  I'd rather buy what I need from companies who produce products (i.e., rolling stock, buildings, accessories, scenic details, parts, etc...) for a living, rather than me ramp up a "mini factory" of sorts to produce my own version of these things.  The economy of scale just isn't there for me IMHO.  But for those of you who want to explore that road, go for it.

David