3n1 oil and Lionel lubrication

I would LOVE to know how a petroleum product can rust metal.

Gandy

Petroleum jelly is a byproduct of oil production composed mainly of mineral oils and paraffin wax, a chemical preservative.It has a high moisture content,that's why it is used oftentimes as a cheap moisturizer.It also contains water.

In simple terms: water + metal + time = rust

Ricky

Interesting. Their web site says that the original Petroleum Jelly repels moisture, or keeps moisture in the skin depending on application. It's not a moisturizing lotion, at least not the original. They do make variants that are supposed to moisturize. in any event I've also repaired thousands of American Flyer trains in the last 45 years that were lubricated with Vaseline per their owners manuals, and I never opened a gear box that had rusted gears. So I'm going with what I know as fact that it is perfectly safe. With the available good greases out today at reasonable prices, there really is no need to use Vaseline though unless its all you got handy.

Gandy

"there really is no need to use Vaseline though unless its all you got handy".

 

Agreed.

Seriously, these are toys. No need for any high tech lubricant. The tolerances are not so seriously critical nor do they run at speeds where they will seize instantly.

 

Any decent lubricant will work on them. Maybe some will harm plastic, but 3 in 1 won't. As stated above, Lionel gave a tube of it with trains in the past.

 

Technology has come a long way, though, and modern synthetics won't gum up or cake up over decades of sitting like non synthetics. But you don't have to pay the price for "train specific" oils (Labelle, for example, and which is kind of tacky in itself). Any synthetic motor oil works just fine and does an amazing job. Run your trains, and then put a drop of any light synthetic motor oil on the axles of your cars and engines, and lube the motor points, then run it again. It will run smoother, and use less power.

 

Buy what you want, but for $4.75, you can buy a quart of Mobil 1 full synthetic 5W type oil, and it will last for years. I use it on cheap trains, and I use it on expensive trains. It just works.

Vasaline was also recommended in Marx instructions.

 

Steve

Mobil 1 sounds like a good idea....

Try it. Like I said, do the car axles and all the standard lube points on a locomotive.

 

But make a mental note of how the train runs before and after. There will always be an improvement with lubrication, but I think you'll see a noticeable difference when using synthetics.

 

My point is that you can spend $5/quart for Mobil 1 or $5 for an ounce of some other type of synthetic train oil, and they are pretty much the same thing. No company is going to invest money and research into lubrication for a toy. The "specialty" synthetic train oils are not all that special, except in price. Do an oil change in the car and collect the drippings from the Mobil 1 bottles in a small container and you have enough to last a year or two.

I use Mobil 1 instead of hobby oil.

Bottom line: 3 in 1 is just fine as a oil in Lionel electric trains.

 

Synthetics like Mobil 1 oils and greases are also excellent choices as they will be plastic safe.

 

One point of clarification - Break Free CLP and similar lubricants are not "oil" as such. They consist of microfine particles of Teflon in a synthetic base. The carrier acts as a solvent and rust protectant and the actual lubrication is done by the Teflon. It is an excellent lubricant, superior to oil in certain high-stress applications. It absolutely will not dry out and get crusty. You don't really need its heat resistance or superior lubricating properties for a toy train - but on the other hand, it's really great stuff and five or ten dollars' worth lasts forever. I have it on my bench anyway for guns, so I just use it for most everything. Oh, and shake well before using. The Teflon sinks to the bottom. You can see this if you are using a clear dispenser bottle. 

 

A few days ago, a member of our 2-rail train club received a new release, second issue, Sunset E-7.  The instructions said to lubricate with 3 in 1.

Doesn't any of this discussion imply that whatever lubricant is used, it's not that critical, but just that some type of lubricant is used? These trains are, for the most part, simple and somewhat crudely built mechanical devices, compared to what these oils are meant to protect.

 

If a train is reasonably cared for and maintained, then the issues with dried and caked up lubricant, etc, that we see on originals won't happen for many years, probably exceeding our time on earth.

 

Some are better than others, but all will work. I can tell you that any train performs better when lubricated, and they perform even better when lubricated with a synthetic, and, an inexpensive, harmless lubricant is any automobile synthetic oil, either 5W or 10W. It's not going to matter, as these trains don't stress oil anywhere near what an automobile will do.

 

All that being said, I would not hesitate to use 3 in 1 if it's what I had. Not my preference, but it will work just fine.

 

Again, ask others what works for them, and decide what is best for yourself.

I use the Labelle plastic compatable oil.  It probably works as good as most, but I like the needle size applicator.  Normally, 3 in 1 cans have a sloppy stem, and gets oil all over the place.  I once applied too much oil to a new MTH engine's drive wheels, and it caused all the traction tires to slip off. 

Could a motor oil like pennzoil 5W-30 be used safetly to lubricate tin plate engines? It works with todays automobile motors that have very tight clearances and tolerances.

 

 Another possiblility, how about synthetic two stroke oil. This has excellant lubrication qualities and is designed to cover all pre mix ratios of different two stroke motors.

 

Just curious.

 

Thanks,

 

John

Motor oil works fine for me, and it doesn't harden into goo.

Would a dry graphite lubricant be acceptable?

 

John

seems to me like I read somewhere that dry graffite is not a good

lubricant for toy trains, but I could be wrong.

My father in law uses automatic transmission fluid of all things,

(the red kind). He seems to have good luck with it, although I dont

know what it would do to plastic parts. i still use the old stand by

3-1 oil for mating parts and white lithium grease for gears.

 

I mentioned this earlier, that I use a food injector for my grease gun.

cut the point off, fill with white lithium grease and instand grease gun.

works great and impresses the crowds at train shows when I get it

out to lube their trains they bring in. I ask them if they want

a shot in the arm??? HA!

Dry lubricant is good for couplers, but not for the rotating machinery.

noticed that someone made the point of the 3-1

oil cans have a sloppy point.  I reamidy that by

buying the Labell oil, when it ran out, I refill it

with the 3-1 oil so I can reuse the needle point.

that Mobile 1 synthetic oil sounds like a great idea.

you could buy a qt and would last forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ricky,

 Are you talking about WD-40 used on tinplate trains, plastic trains, or both?

 

Thanks,

 

John

What type of motor oil do you use,(viscosity/ weight)? Is it a detergent motor oil or non detergent?

 

Thanks,

 

John

 

Previously posted:  "To shine and polish tinplate and plastic trains, Armor-All is an excellent choice."

 

For what it's worth, several years ago when we bought a new car, the dealership told us to NOT use Armor-All on the dashboard, as it will crack it.

I put it on the dash of my wife's Ford Granada several years ago, and it and the sun, actually fried and baked the dashboard and left it black.

 

Needless to say, I haven't used it since.

 

John

Allen,

   I am like you and use the toy train lubs, however my fathers Tin Plate 263E, one of the 1st Lionel Trains ever made, came with a Tin Squeeze Can of 3 in 1 oil, right in the Lionel Train Set.  It was Lionels lubricant of choice at that time, packaged with the Tin Plate train sets. 

PCRR/Dave

 

The original 263E Work Train (Left) and the MTH P2 263E (Right) with original Lionel rolling stock.

 

On exposed gears, I use Lukas Red and Tacky II.  Safe on plastics.  But the stuff does not fly off the gears while in motion.  Has Teflon in it.  Comes in a grease gun tube for about $5.00.  Will last a fifetime!

I'm wary of the tacky lubes every since I tried it for chain saw chain lube. It attracted more debris to the chain and bar and held it there, very messy. Regular thinner lubes don't accumulate and hold debris like glue. My 2 cents worth.

hello guys and gals.............

 

I use Red & tacky #2 for mine Sunset 3rd S.F.#5011, it made the gearbox smoother when running for 6 hours. Its good stuff.  

 

the woman who loves the S.F.#5011

Tiffany

quote:

Would a dry graphite lubricant be acceptable?

 

quote:

Dry lubricant is good for couplers, but not for the rotating machinery.

 

I like to use a dry lubricant on surfaces that only occasionally slide against each other. An example would be the sliding parts of a milk car mechanism. It's not in constant use.

I generally keep away from graphite because I find that it stains, and is impossible to completely remove.