3rd Rail to make Krauss Maffei ML-4000

OldBogie posted:

What this hobby needs is a Ingalls 4-S, humm the Krauss is almost close enough to kit bash.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingalls_4-S

Bogie

Seriously, they're not even close...

Rusty

A fantasy scheme of a PRR or PC could be plausible. The KM has a look that feels Pennys in a way. 

OldBogie posted:

What this hobby needs is a Ingalls 4-S, humm the Krauss is almost close enough to kit bash.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingalls_4-S

Bogie

Naw man what 3rd rail needs to make is an MK5000C I've wanted somebody to make one in O for 6 years now but apparently i'm the only person that likes them on here anyway and that makes my opportunity slimmer than what it already is because that sucker's gonna probably have an 800 dollar or higher pricetag and i don't have that kind of money right now heck i don't even have a decent starter set sooooo Why the heck do i even bother

I'm in for two Grandes, they should look great next to my 3rd Rail F7's. Thanks, Scott!

Scott;

What can I say besides WOW!!!!!  First the EL-2 VGN, then a re-run on the Alco PA for folks like me who missed out first time around and now my favorite ugly beast, KM ML-4000!  All I can say is my check book may never recover but I love it!!!!!

Rolland

The 3rd Rail Grand Trunk Western F3/F5 A-Unit scheme might be a Fantasy scheme, and not a real GTW F3/F5 scheme, based on the lack of preproduction artwork. 

Andrew

I personally would rather pay 3k plus for brass than 2.4k for plastic, especially since we could pay that over the next 2-4 years... Either way I'm excited about these odd beasts 

TexasSP posted:

None of those are accurate schemes and 3rd rail has not typically done fantasy schemes.  I believe the draw for these will be those looking for accuracy and not fantasy paint.  

Well....a few "Undec" units would soothe the fantasy beast in some of us.   

Lordy, it must be that season!  Why just a couple weeks ago Zsa Zsa was announced as the world's most beautiful ugly dog for 2018...

...and now this.....this....this.......????

---------------

Alternatively, there are some 2-railroads-only things of true, iconic beauty....

Ahhhhhh......now THAT's better.

As for me, I wasn't commenting whether or night I liked or approved of fantasy paint schemes, just that 3rd Rail was not known for them.

I don't have a personal issue with fantasy schemes, some I like and some I don't.  However I respect that 3rd Rail's interest is on accuracy and trying to put a fantasy spin and be accurate is rather difficult.  As for unpainted units, I am sure they could, but it may not fit into the assemble process well and actually could add to cost.

Of course one could always procure the SP or D&RGW version and repaint it.

Repainting brass is an option. Repainting plastic is not. 

I asked for unpainted PA’s, didn’t happen. I’m not repainting a plastic model, stripping paint from plastic is a nightmare. 

Sell the K-M ML-4000 painted just SP gray and just D&RGW silver with no additional graphics.

All three surviving loco makers are getting really good at making nothing l want. (Maybe at today's prices and threatened tariffs, that is a good thing)  I remember as a kid, HO models of these were in the model news. Wonder why the Grande unloaded them? ... couldn't handle the grades?

Hope they used the sound of the one on the Niles Canyon Railroad. It's an ex-Southern Pacific loco. Here's some video. Don

scale rail posted:

Hope they used the sound of the one on the Niles Canyon Railroad. It's an ex-Southern Pacific loco. Here's some video. Don

Interesting videos, except the engine was not running in the 9010, as the SD9 was providing the power. Hopefully there are, or will be, videos with the real sounds of the German diesel engine.

HW, thanks for the heads up. There was a problem getting a working transmission at one point. I haven't worked on the Golden Gate Railroad Museums stuff for a long time as we moved. ˝GGRM" moved to Sonoma County and Nile Canyon road stayed put for now. The German engine looks great compared to the last time I saw it. Don

Most recent I read Niles Canyon had gotten one of the Maybach engines running and were able to shut off and turn back on without issues.  The way I read it only one engine will be operational.

Here's a link to their page:  http://sp9010.ncry.org/  The embed videos are disabled, but you can link from them.  1st one is 9010 running pulling the SD9 and second is the engine starting.

Ugly engine. . . I just may buy one. 

I don't model either road, but this is ugly enough to certainly be interesting!  Maybe an SP one for the club layout would be fun.

colorado hirailer posted:

Wonder why the Grande unloaded them? ... couldn't handle the grades?

From what I've read, they preformed well initially, but a time wore on they were proving unsuitable for the Rio Grande's mountainous territory.

Even the SP came to the same conclusion the same thing and consigned them to the Central Valley.

Some interesting info HERE.

Rusty

As I recall the issue with these on mountain grades had to do with the Voith transmissions. 

AMCDave posted:

A fantasy scheme of a PRR or PC could be plausible. The KM has a look that feels Pennsy in a way. 

I feel the same way, Dave.  But I can't afford it anyway, so Third Rail probably isn't going to let my opinion sway them.

Bob posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

AMCDave posted:

Arrgggg.....I swore off buying anything new. But this is one I can't pass up..........price???

Probably look forward to a $700.00+ per unit price range.

According to the 3rd Rail website MSRP is $1199.95.

http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.html#ML4000

 

For a PLASTIC BODIED cowl Diesel?!?

They must be planning to only produce a small amount. Must be less than 500. 

If they could sell 4000 would the price be lowered? 

Andrew

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Bob posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

AMCDave posted:

Arrgggg.....I swore off buying anything new. But this is one I can't pass up..........price???

Probably look forward to a $700.00+ per unit price range.

According to the 3rd Rail website MSRP is $1199.95.

http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.html#ML4000

 

For a PLASTIC BODIED cowl Diesel?!?

It's not hard to do the math on this one.  Scott said 200 units is likely going to be the total units produced.  Price = tooling costs + research + design + assembly costs + a minimal profit divided by the number of units produced.  $1200 for an extremely limited run locomotive of very high detail is a reasonable price.  Brass would likely push this to about $2000.

If the number of units ordered were expected to be over 500 then the price could probably be reduced, but for such a specific model the market just isn't there for that many models in O scale.

Still might go for a SP one just because it is so unique.

If they could sell 4000 would the price be lowered? 

Andrew

I'll take you up on the offer. You buy what ever we can't sell, and I will make 4000 of them.

Scott

I'll be getting one for sure, but would purchase several including a SP. But the limited trackage I have above 048 radius is used for my BB and Challenger. Even though I been waiting decades for this engine to be made, I'm limited to running trackage.  I see 2R will run on 048 though.

Thanks Scott for taking Andrew up on his offer and helping us all out.  

Meanwhile, in Brass new runs of these are about 1900 from what I have found.  Granted older used ones (if they can be found) in HO brass come in around 1000 give or take. 

Let's go guys I want at least a couple for myself so put your orders in 

This one is not for me, but it is a very interesting locomotive.  If I were an SP guy, I'd buy a couple of the ex-DRGW's and an SP original.

Thanks, Scott, for always thinking of ways to bring us unique models.

I really like these and I would be in for a couple of the Rio Grande and If made in Pennsy I would take those to. 

I have been asking for these for years but it has come at a time I can no longer spend the money.

For those who can swing these please post plenty of pics and videos.

Dave

We just need 50 to 100 people in each of the 48 continental states to order these ML-4000 units. 

Andrew

but yet STILL no FP-45's??????????????????????????? makes absolutely no sense!!!!!!!!!!!!

GG1 4877 posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Bob posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

AMCDave posted:

Arrgggg.....I swore off buying anything new. But this is one I can't pass up..........price???

Probably look forward to a $700.00+ per unit price range.

According to the 3rd Rail website MSRP is $1199.95.

http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.html#ML4000

 

For a PLASTIC BODIED cowl Diesel?!?

It's not hard to do the math on this one.  Scott said 200 units is likely going to be the total units produced.  Price = tooling costs + research + design + assembly costs + a minimal profit divided by the number of units produced.  $1200 for an extremely limited run locomotive of very high detail is a reasonable price.  Brass would likely push this to about $2000.

If the number of units ordered were expected to be over 500 then the price could probably be reduced, but for such a specific model the market just isn't there for that many models in O scale.

Still might go for a SP one just because it is so unique.

The big Virginian 2 unit electrics with ABS bodies are listed at 2K, in todays market a 200 =/- run of engines like these in both 2 and 3 rail is obviously a viable deal for Sunset, bear in mind these models gat announced, reserved and produced in a reasonable time frame whats left of the O scale brass market is high end pricing and very long term delivery. JMO

I would actually like one of these K-M's, but probably not enough to spring for the price. The other, road-switcher/SD-40/hood style body is even more appealing.

===== 

The discussion in this thread including the Ingalls 4-S was quite unexpected. The 4-S spent most of its life in Mobile as GM&O 1900, as a switcher and local engine, but occasionally found itself well north on other GM&O trains. It was built at Ingalls Shipbuilding in Pascagoula MS, just across the state line from Mobile, so it is a bit of a unicorn for the area rail fanning bunch - or would be if it still existed.

Scott - a 3Rd Rail Ingalls would get me to buy one (or two!). Just sayin'. I finished a Weaver-mechanicals version in 3RO a few years ago; sits a bit high, but otherwise an outstanding model. 90% of the work was done by someone else - including the hard parts - but I corrected a couple of errors, did the fixed pilot, window glass and paint/decals.

Unfortunately, the model is not mine. Haven't seen it for years.

Laidoffsick posted:

but yet STILL no FP-45's??????????????????????????? makes absolutely no sense!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you would be up for $1200 FP45s (and/or SDP40Fs) let Scott know.  ~200 is a lot more doable than 500.  If the folks that did reserve SD40-2s would be up for $1200 models then he is a lot closer to the minimum.

I don't know why you and Scott don't think the FP45s will sell? There is several paint schemes for that engine and the cars for the train are already out there. 

and NO, no one is going to pay $1200 for plastic FP45's, SD40-2's, or GP-40's either 

Laidoffsick posted:

I don't know why you and Scott don't think the FP45s will sell? There is several paint schemes for that engine and the cars for the train are already out there. 

and NO, no one is going to pay $1200 for plastic FP45's, SD40-2's, or GP-40's either 

I would pay $1200 for an SD40-2 since nobody has been able to make a respectable model in O scale.

catnap posted:

Laidoffsick posted:

I don't know why you and Scott don't think the FP45s will sell? There is several paint schemes for that engine and the cars for the train are already out there. 

and NO, no one is going to pay $1200 for plastic FP45's, SD40-2's, or GP-40's either 

I would pay $1200 for an SD40-2 since nobody has been able to make a respectable model in O scale.

My I suggest you check out Midwest Model Works. Lots of information on the OGR 2-Rail SCALE Forum, if you search for it.

Jack, Erik’s Models will have a price tag well above $1200.

dont worry about the FP45s, he’ll make em soon enough I’m sure, Therecare only so many prototypes left.

Matt Makens posted:

Jack, Erik’s Models will have a price tag well above $1200.

Well, "catnap" only said "...that nobody has been able to make a respectable model in O scale.", without any price limitation. Thus, if he wants a truly accurate model,,,,,,,,,,,he better get his checkbook or credit card out.

dont worry about the FP45s, he’ll make em soon enough I’m sure, Therecare only so many prototypes left.