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How about one of the Alco diesel-hydraulics instead - the DH643 (or C-643DH)? More successful that the K-M's, they were better suited to abusive and abrasive US railroad practices. The K-M's were a touch Euro-delicate. (In the interests of accuracy, the Alcos also used a German-made Voith transmission as part of the drive train; I still think that a beefed-up Chrysler 727 TorqueFlite automatic would have done the job...)

They - the DH643's - were nicknamed "Alcohaulics" (so delightfully politically incorrect now) as they could "empty the yard". 

(Or, better yet, Scott, how about my NYC R-2 electric instead of either of them? It's still on my reserved list, now along with my ERR kits.)

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Hot Water posted:

Boy are they UGLY!!!!  However, if one models the D&RGW and/or the SP in the early to mid-1960s, certainly must-have models.

Don't think you'll get any argument about that! How many versions can they produce for those that requested them? Two? Will that cover the tooling? Heaven forbid this scheme is included!  

AHM_KM

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Dominic Mazoch posted:

Did the SP later buy the Grande units?

Don't remember.

Did these units "force" the locomotive makers here in thw US to up horsepower and make their traction motors and electricals more robust?

You ARE kidding, right? That hydraulic drive was not all that successful, otherwise all diesel units would have been going with hydraulic drive transmissions.

 

Hot Water posted:
Dominic Mazoch posted:

Did the SP later buy the Grande units?

Don't remember.

Did these units "force" the locomotive makers here in thw US to up horsepower and make their traction motors and electricals more robust?

You ARE kidding, right? That hydraulic drive was not all that successful, otherwise all diesel units would have been going with hydraulic drive transmissions.

 

Yes, SP bought the Rio Grande units:

KM SP 9023 exDRGW

KM SP 9023 exDRGW 2

And notice the 3 units SP bought new had a different light array than the 3 Rio Grande units:

KM SP 9101

Rusty

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Last edited by Rusty Traque
TexasSP posted:

Wow, that seems a little out of the ballpark now.  Wonder if Scott Mann can offer insight as to why such a high price compared to other ABS diesel offerings.

Well, just my opinion:

1) These unit models will require a VERY special carbody, which looks like no other diesel model ever made. Remember all those models of SD7 and SD9 units, all were pretty much the same except for handrail stanchions, and various railroad  specific light packages.

2) These models will have VERY specialized trucks. Again, trucks that have never been made previously in O Scale, and NOT comparable to any other O Scale diesel model.

3) The specific details between the D&RGW models and the SP models are numerous and complex for the builder.

4) Scott will NOT be able to "re-run" these models to represent ANY OTHER non-steam locomotive! 

Hot Water posted:
TexasSP posted:

Wow, that seems a little out of the ballpark now.  Wonder if Scott Mann can offer insight as to why such a high price compared to other ABS diesel offerings.

Well, just my opinion:

1) These unit models will require a VERY special carbody, which looks like no other diesel model ever made. Remember all those models of SD7 and SD9 units, all were pretty much the same except for handrail stanchions, and various railroad  specific light packages.

2) These models will have VERY specialized trucks. Again, trucks that have never been made previously in O Scale, and NOT comparable to any other O Scale diesel model.

3) The specific details between the D&RGW models and the SP models are numerous and complex for the builder.

4) Scott will NOT be able to "re-run" these models to represent ANY OTHER non-steam locomotive! 

Fair enough.  I am in for 1 for sure, debating 2.  These have a special place for me in memories of stories told by my grandfather from when they came in through the Port of Houston.

We looked into brass as an option for the VGN EL-2b. It would have made the pair about $3000, out of the question IMHO.  There is a reason why all brass diesels are priced the way they are. There is no magic, they are very expensive to make in brass.

Our team (3D Design, Tooling, Production)  is very good at taking an ABS body and loading it with brass castings and details that very closely match all brass models of late.

The fact that this model will have limited appeal, SP, D&RGW and a few guys that just like the ugliest thing around, we expect to get about 200 orders only. Design and Tooling are what drive the unit price. Sorry if that puts this out of the ball park for some.

Scott - China

 

SANTIAGOP23 posted:
Hot Water posted:
SANTIAGOP23 posted:

The one thing I'm not a fan off so far is "die cast tucks

I'm pretty sure that Scott does NOT use die cast trucks on his locomotive models.

We all know that, which is precisely why I pointed it out duh!

Except, this is the 027 Trains Forum, thus "pointing it out" may fall on deaf ears.

Hot Water posted:
SANTIAGOP23 posted:
Hot Water posted:
SANTIAGOP23 posted:

The one thing I'm not a fan off so far is "die cast tucks

I'm pretty sure that Scott does NOT use die cast trucks on his locomotive models.

We all know that, which is precisely why I pointed it out duh!

Except, this is the 027 Trains Forum, thus "pointing it out" may fall on deaf ears.

Doesn’t change the fact that Sunset is still advertising  them with “die-cast trucks”

OldBogie posted:

What this hobby needs is a Ingalls 4-S, humm the Krauss is almost close enough to kit bash.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingalls_4-S

Bogie

Ed Reutling is smiling on you in heaven. 

I guess making the K-M proves that much of the O scale market is driven by big or eclectic locomotives.

The lowly SD40-2 got no respect in O scale regardless of how much tonnage it pulled or how nice it rides.

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