4-4-2 smoke unit question

When you say your draws an incredible amount of power. Do you mean mechanical or electrical? Those smoke units don't draw any extra electric power when the plunger activates, so I assume you're talking mechanical. They usually move very easily. I would take it apart and see if something is binding.

Steve did u add smoke fluid to the smoke unit and plus some of the older engines does not have smoke unit switch to turn it off and on. Its important to keep adding fluid but you can wire on and off switch if u like. 

chessie1971 posted:

Steve did u add smoke fluid to the smoke unit and plus some of the older engines does not have smoke unit switch to turn it off and on. Its important to keep adding fluid but you can wire on and off switch if u like. 

It has plenty of smoke fluid as it starts smoking almost instantly and a lot of it.  It is a smoke fluid smell and not burnt plastic, etc.  And you are correct, this is an engine that does not have a switch.  I've disconnected the ground lead.

Train Nut posted:

When you say your draws an incredible amount of power. Do you mean mechanical or electrical? Those smoke units don't draw any extra electric power when the plunger activates, so I assume you're talking mechanical. They usually move very easily. I would take it apart and see if something is binding.

Electrical.  The DC motor barely spins and the head light is very dim.  I've worked on a few of these, so I'm kind of familiar with the operation, this one has me stumped.  I'll keep looking.

Thanks for the reply.

There was a couple of the 4-4-2 starter sets that didn't have the smoke units inserted in the engine

Steve i would check the side rods and see if there any binding and also i would remove the motor and run it off dc power and take ohm meter check amps. If its pulling alot of amps motor maybe bad and idk if your eunit would cause a problem or not.  

• What is the number. They have differed.
• Itsounds like a short or not the right ohm element for the motor. But mostly a short. A short inside the smoke unit can make smoke too, lol. Take an ohm reading off the smoke unit. Inspect wires. Since you say it's dc, is there a board or rectifier? Smoke unit hooked up incorrectly bridging the ac&dc? Id feed the smoke and light right from the rollers unless a board was controlling things, and even then I might. If the unit didn't have smoke originally, the feed wires might be too light. If that's the case, possibly cooked wire.
• All wild guesses without more info really.

I ended up taking the smoke unit apart and it was damaged on the inside.  It looks like the smoke element may have broke and some how healed it self but was using few winding.  The base of the plastic smoke stack had melted to the point it was extremely deformed.  I kept digging parts/pieces out of the smoke stack chamber.  FWIW: The smoke units used on these inexpensive locomotives attached directly to the center rail and an out side rail.  If there was a resistor, it was part of the smoke unit, which may have also doubled as the smoke element.  If the chamber hadn't have been so damaged, I could have probably used a smoke element available from many parts dealers and repaired. Anyway,  The head light piece still works ok, so I reassembled using super glue and reinstalled.  Light works, no smoke but no big deal, the engine still works great.  These are pretty tough little engines.  I've run them on layouts for long periods of time just to see how long they'll last. About the only 2 things I've had fail are the smoke units and the incandescent light bulb.

Thank you everyone for your responses.

Steve

The price for these smoke units has been sneaking up, you are better off eliminating it, because a new one might have a short life. Usually if the motor goes bad, it takes the reverse unit with it, making for an expensive repair.

I don't think the reverse board (if there) is much of a victim issue here Doc, the smoke unit was wired direct to the rollers.

The same chamber type was used on a few, and that chamber could hold a wrapped ceramic post war pellet element, or the resistor type element.

A brand new chamber cap comes with many rebuild kits. The resistance might be 12- 30 ohm, but most likely nearer 27ohm. A lower number means more heat at a lower voltage, more heat means more smoke, and sooner rebuilds.

   The price of resistor elements makes experimenting cheap. I prefer the more resilient post war type since when they go dry, they don't die.

Some careful crafting and you might be able to make a cap from high temp silicone.

   Here is a draft-air unit I made of a silicone pill holder. It has about 30 hours of use and it works pretty well just being draft drawn. (25 ohm element, another tuft of very loose wick, the fiber disk keeps the stack from shorting on the element as the "sandwiching" under the lids pressure is..... the only thing holding it together[a quite firm hold though])

It holds an eyedropper of fluid very neatly.