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The horrible high speed wreck of Amtrak 188 in Philadelphia surely has many people -- myself included -- thinking about passenger train derailments in general.  It's just the way I'm "wired", but, whether as a passenger, a member of the engine crew, or a supervisor, I always have thought about what action to take in case of a derailment.  These days, I am a passenger, and, when boarding and getting seated, I always look around and try to think of a primary and secondary escape plan.  When walking in the train while underway, and especially when passing between cars, I use part of my brain to revise my action plan.  This is not from fear, but, as a former railroader and lifelong student of railroading I am always aware of what could happen (but almost certainly won't).  Maybe you do something similar.  Being aboard a passenger train, one has a feeling of being aboard the safest mode of intercity transportation.  But the Five P's are branded onto part of my brain -- Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance.

 

So, this wreck took me back to 1984, when I was appointed Road Foreman of Engines on Santa Fe's Needles Subdivision, between Barstow and Needles, 170 miles of high speed double track through very sparsely populated desert.  Amtrak Nos. 3 and 4 met every night on the Needles Subdivision at a combined speed of 180 MPH.  When getting adjusted to the new assignment, there were a lot of things to do: learn the railroad (grades, curves, bridges, signal locations, station names and milepost locations); learn the main and secondary roads that allow motor vehicle access to the railroad at all locations; get to know the people who operate the trains, maintain the track, and maintain the signals; pay a courtesy call on the Sheriff's Department.  There were three possible scenarios that seemed to me to be the worst that could happen on the Needles Subdivision:

  • A train collision.  We had good crews with good rules compliance, and the likelihood of a rear-end collision was low.  But a failed journal or a broken rail could possibly have caused a train to derail and foul the adjacent track with an opposing 90 MPH passenger train or 70 MPH freight train too close to stop before colliding with the derailed equipment.
  • A washout.  The railroad runs parallel to desert mountain ranges and is crossed by numerous dry washes that become channels for flash floods during the early summer monsoon season.  They can happen in the dark of night.
  • A passenger train derailment at high speed out in the dark of the desert.  Emergency responders would have difficulty locating the wreck in many locations if all the lights on the passenger train went out during the wreck.

Fortunately, during the nine years that I was assigned to the Needles Subdivision, we had only two freight train derailments, no passenger train derailments, and no injuries as a result of derailments.  But there was still a plan for action floating around in part of my brain.  And the first thing I did upon awakening was to call the Dispatcher and check on Numbers 3 and 4.

 

The actions of passengers and first responders in the Philadelphia wreck show that there was good preparation and clear thinking by people who went into action, beginning as soon as the train derailed.  We all hate to see a wreck like this happen, but can take comfort that it is a rare event, and that millions of passengers have traveled safely at high speed on that route.  And a tip of the hat is definitely due to the Fire Department and Police Department, as well as several clear-thinking passengers, for their actions in getting dazed or injured people from the train to safety and/or medical treatment.  The news is not reporting anything about Amtrak's employees, but you can bet that a number of them had a plan for action in case of this, and their behind-the-scenes actions in getting equipment into place to clear the wreck and to allow access by emergency vehicles is surely a factor in getting the passengers to safety and restoring train service as quickly as possible.

 

Finally, think about the performance of railroaders, passengers, and first responders in this wreck, and then think about the miserable performance of the railroad which caused the Lac Megantic oil train wreck.  Quite a contrast.

 

Last edited by Number 90
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My wife commuted from Moreno Valley to Hollywood (over 100 miles) for 3+ years. I told her... never ride in the 1st or last car. Pick one in the middle and sit by an exit of some kind. She was never involved in a derailment, but had been on trains that hit vehicles at crossings, and people on the tracks.

Hospitals have a mandated number of disaster drills they must conduct to maintain their accreditation. They play "what if" with different scenarios, and coordinate the drills with 1st Responders.

If a railroad cannot stage a drill or mock disaster, the scenario can still be played out in the minds of supervisory people, and discussed with emergency responders and health care facilities.  It sounds like you inherently did most of this, and thankfully, no disasters occurred.

I love passenger trains, yet am opposed to the idea of bullet trains.  We could invest all the California money into complete double- tracking the west coast main line, and getting Amtrak above an average 39 mph for lots less - and hire co-pilots who are competent in these large locomotives.  If they still have two crewmembers, I take that part back.

 

Can you imagine a derailment at 230 mph?

problem with our track system is old aging...Over in Europe there using cement rail road ties and bolting the rails to them plus welding the tracks together...Dixon Il and some other states and rail road company's are switching over to cement rail road ties..the rest of this country need to switch over too..wooden ties gets weak and not strong enough to take high speeds loads...

Last edited by joseywales

The issue in this unfortunate case hasn't anything to do with wooden ties.  This line uses concrete ties.  It seems the train was traveling too fast for that stretch of rail.  Theory has it that the trainman was not paying enough attention due to possible distraction with other electronic devices.   How unfortunate that this stretch of road didn't have any speed governance devices in place.  Apparently this same stretch of road had a similar accident many years ago in which many people perished.  

 

Though having a plan of escape is good, but in this instance it wouldn't have mattered.

I witness reports indicate that people and seats with people in them were flying through the air in the car.  You can't plan for that!   The degree of destruction to the cars were horrific.  May God have mercy on the souls of the departed and may the injured heal fully and quickly.

Originally Posted by colorado hirailer:

Do these commuter locos, like commercial aircraft, have "autopilot", so the  engineer

can step away to the john, or whatever, for a time?

No. The automatic alertness system would activate, thinking that the Engineer had possibly dies. The current alertness systems require that the Engineer do SOMETHING every so many seconds, depending on the train speed, i.e. blow the horn, use the brake valve, adjust the throttle, or keep pushing the "reset" button.

Originally Posted by Allegheny:

The issue in this unfortunate case hasn't anything to do with wooden ties.  This line uses concrete ties.  It seems the train was traveling too fast for that stretch of rail.  Theory has it that the trainman was not paying enough attention due to possible distraction with other electronic devices.   How unfortunate that this stretch of road didn't have any speed governance devices in place.  Apparently this same stretch of road had a similar accident many years ago in which many people perished.  

 

Though having a plan of escape is good, but in this instance it wouldn't have mattered.

I witness reports indicate that people and seats with people in them were flying through the air in the car.  You can't plan for that!   The degree of destruction to the cars were horrific.  May God have mercy on the souls of the departed and may the injured heal fully and quickly.

I was on the wrong subject..But mainly talking about AM track accident...and now theres another rail derailment in Pittsburg...

Originally Posted by bob2:

I love passenger trains, yet am opposed to the idea of bullet trains.  We could invest all the California money into complete double- tracking the west coast main line, and getting Amtrak above an average 39 mph for lots less - and hire co-pilots who are competent in these large locomotives.  If they still have two crewmembers, I take that part back.

 

Can you imagine a derailment at 230 mph?

California's mountain ranges both on the coast and the interior (Tehachapi) make it very difficult to double track the main line.  Those lines are also used by many freight trains.  Speeds would be low because of sharp curves (Tehachapi loop) and steep grades even if the line was double tracked.  Take a look at track plan of the Tehachapi grade and the coast line grades.

 

The new CA bullet train is going to have a double track tunnel under the Tehachapi mountains.  This is a huge and expensive dig that is comparable to what the Swiss have done or the Chunnel between England and France.

 

I spoke to an Amtrak safety expert several years ago.  He said that safety studies had consistently shown that one engineer was safer than two people in the cab.  The reason is that two people tend to get talking and distract each other.  There are many examples of crashes with two crew members in the cab.  All the modern European passenger trains that I have ridden have only one engineer (or driver as they say in England).

 

USA freight trains have two crew members in the cab.  The conductor is charge of the paperwork and also has to leave the cab if something goes wrong during the trip such as a pulled coupler.  The engineer, as far as I know, stays in the cab at all times to control the train.  Even with two people in the cab there have been recent examples of freight trains running signals and head on collisions.

 

Joe

 

 

 

My airline would have loved that concept.  Before my airline career, I was a single pilot corporate turboprop driver - young and healthy.  I told my boss he should have two pilots - guess I was wrong.

 

In the airlines the most common comment right after " why is it doing that?" was "that's why there are two of us".

Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Originally Posted by colorado hirailer:

Do these commuter locos, like commercial aircraft, have "autopilot", so the  engineer

can step away to the john, or whatever, for a time?

No. The automatic alertness system would activate, thinking that the Engineer had possibly dies. The current alertness systems require that the Engineer do SOMETHING every so many seconds, depending on the train speed, i.e. blow the horn, use the brake valve, adjust the throttle, or keep pushing the "reset" button.

I watched a program about the New York City subway system and NO the engineer can not step away or the engine will come to a stop. There is some kind of switch or button that needs to be activated every 25 to 50 seconds or the service brakes come on and try to slow down & stop the train.

There is NO auto program for the engineer, he or she has to be there at all times and awake.

 

Let's just say that airplanes and trains are very different.

 

Lee Fritz

Originally Posted by phillyreading:
Let's just say that airplanes and trains are very different.

 

Lee Fritz

Lee,

I think you would be surprised how similar they are. Boardman, The CEO of Amtrak put it this way: (loosely quoted) Trains are like airplanes. They must operate without failure and depart and arrive safely.

 

It made me pay attention to the clarity of that statement.

Tom:

 

Thank you for sharing your knowledge as a RFE.  There is so many facets of railroading that most of us never give much thought to until it is presented by folks such as yourself.  I appreciate you taking the time to put together your post.  

 

I just got back from a week trip in Africa.  Heard about the Philly wreck while over there, didn't have any time to dig into the details.  That is this morning's activity. 

 

Regards,

Jerry

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