A Video For Hot Water & Anyone Else Interested

Brendan posted:

Hot Water posted:

Brendan posted:

Railfan Brody posted:

I saw something a long time ago that made me really mad. You just have to see it for yourself, because apparently, "If there's a fatality at a crossing without lights, it's Union Pacific's fault, NOT the person who didn't stop." Their words, not mine! 

The comment section on YouTube was crazy.

 

I agree with you to a point, but why should the full safety onus (cost and actions) be on me so someone else can make money?

Brendan

Because as a tax paying U.S. citizen, THAT is part of your responsibility.

So you are saying it is my responsibility to pay taxes to help a railroad save money?

Brendan

Sure!  Lets go with that.

On a lighter note (I think, LOL) ....

As I sit here in my garage playing on the computer and servicing my snow thrower that has not even been used once in this warm winter .... a re-run of "Dirty Jobs" is on Discovery Channel. The entire hour as been devoted to a visit to MotivePower in Boise .... doing heavy locomotive work. Fun to watch.

I like Mike Rowe.

Hot Water posted:

Brendan posted:

Hot Water posted:

Brendan posted:

Railfan Brody posted:

I saw something a long time ago that made me really mad. You just have to see it for yourself, because apparently, "If there's a fatality at a crossing without lights, it's Union Pacific's fault, NOT the person who didn't stop." Their words, not mine! 

The comment section on YouTube was crazy.

 

I agree with you to a point, but why should the full safety onus (cost and actions) be on me so someone else can make money?

Brendan

Because as a tax paying U.S. citizen, THAT is part of your responsibility.

So you are saying it is my responsibility to pay taxes to help a railroad save money?

Brendan

Sure!  Lets go with that.

lol

and servicing my snow thrower that has not even been used once in this warm winter ....  You lucky   son of a gun"

Who's mike Rowe?

Brendan posted:

So you are saying it is my responsibility to pay taxes to help a railroad save money?

You already pay taxes to support airlines and trucking companies. Why not the railroads?

Railroading is the only mode of transport in the country that has to pay to maintain the right-of-way it runs on. And then they have to pay property taxes on that same right-of-way!

Airlines operate out of tax-funded airports and trucks run on locally and federally funded highways. There is a tax on jet fuel and diesel that helps with the infrastructure funding, but the revenue collected from those taxes falls far short of funding the entire airport and highway maintenance costs. The rest comes from you and me and every one else who buys fuel for our cars and trucks.

The tax burden faced by airlines and trucking companies to support the infrastructure they use doesn't come anywhere near the level of tax burden the railroads have to deal with.

Back to the OP's subject...the deeper problem with that "Extreme Trains" series was the hyped up level of danger they portrayed in every show. They tried to create the impression that railroading was a reckless and dangerous mode of transport, when in fact it is the safest and most energy-efficient mode of transport we have! Uneducated people (read politicians) who don't know anything about railroading see this and believe it, thus destroying the image of railroads as a safe mode of transport in the eyes of the public. Public pressure of this distorted view of railroading results in more unnecessary scrutiny by the Feds and more unneeded regulations on the railroads. 

My problem with this show goes much deeper than a hyped-up host and shaky camera work. This show hurt the industry. That was very apparent to the people in the industry, which was why there was no second season. After watching the first season, no railroad in the country would allow them back on the property. That ought to tell you something.

I don't relish paying for them, either.  Trucks do pay higher road taxes.  The trucking industry was initially against the federal highway system.

Brendan

But the trucking industry did not have to PAY for the construction of those highways, nor do they pay property taxes on them. The fuel tax the truckers pay doesn't come anywhere close to covering all the highway maintenance costs. The rest comes from you and me.

The railroads not only have to pay to maintain their own right-of-ways, they also have to pay property taxes on them. Airlines and trucking companies do neither.

I just watched a little more of this God-awful video about the 844. At one point in the show, the producer has Matt say, "The history of steam locomotives is littered with boiler explosions."  How do you suspect that affects the people who are in the business of operating steam locomotives today? More importantly, how do you suppose that affects the decision-makers at the railroads who decide whether or not to allow a steam locomotive to run on their lines?

If you went by the way this show presents the issue, you'd think that in the old days a steam locomotive blew up every week when in fact is was a very rare occurrence! To use current terminology, it is totally "fake news" and not true.

OGR Webmaster posted:

But the trucking industry did not have to PAY for the construction of those highways, nor do they pay property taxes on them. The fuel tax the truckers pay doesn't come anywhere close to covering all the highway maintenance costs. The rest comes from you and me.

The railroads not only have to pay to maintain their own right-of-ways, they also have to pay property taxes on them. Airlines and trucking companies do neither.

Believe me, I wasn't trying to start a debate.  My last word - at least I get to use the highway system.  I can only use rail in a limited fashion through tax-funded Amtrak.  I get that they have more expenses, but that's the playing field.

Brendan

Brendan:

You're getting far more out of railroads than the ability to ride Amtrak.

Even though coal generated electricity  has been diminishing, the utilities that burn coal, perhaps the one providing you electricity, use rail to receive the coal burned in their power plants.

Odds are the vehicle you drive and the myriad parts that went into its manufacture also moved by rail.  The chemicals and fertilizer that enable farmers to grow corn, wheat and soybeans that go into the food you eat were likely moved by rail as was the grain itself.  Feed grains for the beef and pork you consume likely moved by rail.  The plastic in your soda bottles and milk jugs probably moved by rail.  The clothing you wear, the TV you watch, the stereo you listen to; all likely moved by rail in an intermodal container.  Heck; even the trains you play with and the beer you drink likely moved by rail at some point.  The lumber used to construct your home; the granuales on your shingles also likely moved by rail at some point.

Railroads are handling far more things integral to our lives and livelihoods than most people realize.  If the railroads in this country suddenly stopped running; I promise you we'd be in a world of hurt within a day or two.

Curt

OGR Webmaster posted:

If Matt Brown is indeed the nice guy you said he is, I feel sorry for him. The producers of this load of crap made him look like a fool.

Did they ever!

juniata guy posted:

Brendan:

You're getting far more out of railroads than the ability to ride Amtrak.

Even though coal generated electricity  has been diminishing, the utilities that burn coal, perhaps the one providing you electricity, use rail to receive the coal burned in their power plants.

Odds are the vehicle you drive and the myriad parts that went into its manufacture also moved by rail.  The chemicals and fertilizer that enable farmers to grow corn, wheat and soybeans that go into the food you eat were likely moved by rail as was the grain itself.  Feed grains for the beef and pork you consume likely moved by rail.  The plastic in your soda bottles and milk jugs probably moved by rail.  The clothing you wear, the TV you watch, the stereo you listen to; all likely moved by rail in an intermodal container.  Heck; even the trains you play with and the beer you drink likely moved by rail at some point.  The lumber used to construct your home; the granuales on your shingles also likely moved by rail at some point.

Railroads are handling far more things integral to our lives and livelihoods than most people realize.  If the railroads in this country suddenly stopped running; I promise you we'd be in a world of hurt within a day or two.

Curt

Curt

I was not knocking railroads in the least.  Everything you mentioned we pay for one way or another and they'd stop doing it if we didn't pay.  And I don't "play" with my trains!!  I engage in reality railroading. 

Brendan

"Reality Railroading" I like that. I will have to remember that one!

OGR Webmaster posted:

But the trucking industry did not have to PAY for the construction of those highways, nor do they pay property taxes on them. The fuel tax the truckers pay doesn't come anywhere close to covering all the highway maintenance costs. The rest comes from you and me.

And why isn't this the way it should be? Trucks account for only a small percent of the vehicular traffic traveling daily on our nation's roads, across its bridges, and thru its tunnels.

The railroads not only have to pay to maintain their own right-of-ways, they also have to pay property taxes on them. Airlines and trucking companies do neither.

And why isn't this the way it should also be? Unlike  the roads of our nation that all registered vehicles can use, railroad tracks are for the sole use trains and not any other vehicles.

A situation of unrealistically comparing apples to oranges?

ogaugeguy posted:

OGR Webmaster posted:

But the trucking industry did not have to PAY for the construction of those highways, nor do they pay property taxes on them. The fuel tax the truckers pay doesn't come anywhere close to covering all the highway maintenance costs. The rest comes from you and me.

And why isn't this the way it should be? Trucks account for only a small percent of the vehicular traffic traveling daily on our nation's roads, across its bridges, and thru its tunnels.

The railroads not only have to pay to maintain their own right-of-ways, they also have to pay property taxes on them. Airlines and trucking companies do neither.

And why isn't this the way it should also be? Unlike  the roads of our nation that all registered vehicles can use, railroad tracks are for the sole use trains and not any other vehicles.

A situation of unrealistically comparing apples to oranges?

 

ogaugeguy,

I agree with both of your points,

Trucks pay for the use of the highways, though fuel, FET and/or weight/mile taxes, with the weight/mile tax the truck is being taxed on the HEAVIEST weight it is liscensed to gross, regardless of whether it is loaded to the max liscensed weight, empty or running Bobtail, the truck pays max tax for all miles driven.

 I am (obviously) a rail fan, but one of the things that has always grated on me is, by their very nature railroad tracks create a continuous barrier for many miles on end. I live East of Portland, OR, and there are MANY miles of the Columbia River shoreline that are inaccessible because of the Union Pacific, and BNSF tracks on the other side of the river. The only (Legal) access to much of this shoreline is by boat, in Oregon River and Ocean shores are PUBLIC property, up to the Mean High Water Line, on navigable waterways.

 Railroads are somewhat inconsistent on enforcing trespass laws from RR to RR, and area to area, the continuous barrier is what it is, a necessary evil, but if access were allowed beyond the tracks, that is something that I could easily accept. But the possibility of being Hassled or charged with Trespass, is what I have trouble with, especially in my case as a CCW holder, that then opens up Trespass with a Firearm, which can add even more complications. I am NOT trying to steal, or vandalize RR property or their cargo, I DO try to keep SAFETY in mind when near or crossing RR tracks. I just want ACCESS to public property that I have a right to use.

Doug

MJV1988 posted:

pennytrains posted:

MJV1988 posted:

I recently got this as a Christmas gift. I feel like I've been jipped now reading these comments. I saw the 844 episode and thought it was a bit goofy. Now I'll ask a serious question. What railroad show would/did you guys prefer or recommend? I enjoyed trains unlimited alot when it was on but that was 20 years ago.

Tracks Ahead was good.  But if you want classics take a look at discount stores (Big Lots, Ollie's, etc) that sell dvd's cheap.  I've picked up several sets of promotional films done by the railroads back in the 50's.

Tracks Ahead....was that the one with Spencer Christian? I believe he's a weatherman out here in the bay area on one of the local stations. There was also a decent program on restored passenger cars that were owned by private parties. That only lasted about 3 or 4 episodes.

Yes.  I bought one of those aforementioned DVD sets at Target a few years back and it has two sets of 5 discs each in it.  One is made up of the Madacy group films of the 90's.  The other set is all Tracks Ahead segments, but without Spencer Christian appearing.