Acquiring the Right Lionel Tin Plate 305 Hellgate Bridge

Lucky guy.  Now you get to be creative.  Figure it out!  And have fun.  Looks like a nice chunka tin.

Really nice !!  I love bridges-real and toy, have always thought the Heck Gate bridge was special. No room on my layout for something like that.  Enjoy.

Beautiful Bridge enjoy it on your layout. I saw one at the local train show , not as nice as yours.

Nice find Dave it is definitely worth worth it I have the cream and red and silver version and with illuminated towers it looks awesome

Joeg

Joeg,

   I like the cream and red and silver version also, however the Sand and Green went with my layout, took me a while to come up with exactly the HG bridge I really wanted.  I do believe I will change the lights to a soft Green LED, as I alter the Christmas Layout, and at Bills suggestion put a blinking LED at the top of the Arches.  

PCRR/Dave

William 1, Jim & Kris,

    Thanks guys for the nice words, I appreciate it, I will definitely have fun with the re-engineering to add her to my Christmas layout, Jim I know what you mean about limited space and I make the very most of what I have left.   Kris I scanned the train shows for a long time looking for what I wanted, and never found anything like Lou was able to sell me, especially for the price.  I was just lucky.

PCRR/Dave

Hi Dave

I saw two of them at one show. One was listed selling price of $600.00 and need to be restored. The other one was in better shape and the asking price was over $900.00. Both of them where not as nice shape as yours.

nvocc5 posted:

Hi Dave

I saw two of them at one show. One was listed selling price of $600.00 and need to be restored. The other one was in better shape and the asking price was over $900.00. Both of them where not as nice shape as yours.

1) Nice find, Dave!  While I didn't go for these back in ~1998-99 when they came out, I did grow to like them and sought out both color variants over the last few years.  They are really nice.

2) nvocc5 - The ones you saw were most likely original 300s (not the modern #305 variant Dave has above) if they needed restoration (while I suppose it's possible a newer one met with an ill fate, most people don't consider restoring modern items as much as pre/post war items).  For those of us looking for just functional and a nice looking piece, the modern items are a no-brainer in terms of bang for the buck (I think a mint boxed one of either color would  go somewhere between $300-450 over the last few years).  For people that want a true original item from the pre-war era of Lionel, even ones needing restoration can cause people to decide it's worth it.  When I had a table at York a few years ago, the gentleman across from me was in the process of liquidating his collection.  The last piece he had was an original Hellgate that he had forgotten he had stashed in a corner of his house somewhere.  It was not pristine, (probably scratched and some paint chipping), but it wasn't all rusted either.  I believe he had it listed for ~$1200.  Me not being a pre-war person, I had no idea if that was fair or not.  It sold with no haggling just a short amount of time into the meet.  The guy who bought it was working on a pre-war tinplate layout, and he mentioned the bridge was the last piece where he did not yet have an original (as opposed to modern reproduction of some flavor, Lionel, MTH, etc) installed, so both parties were very happy with the sale price.

-Dave

I have both the t-reproductions red version and the green version but in the #300.  The #300 was the original design and the #305 was the redesign.   An original #300 that is in mint condition is going to be in the $1,500 range while guys like me are selling the mint newer ones for $300 or so.  It's amazing what the price difference is.    If you know someone wanting one, send them my way and I'll make them a deal.

I missed out on a Green and Cream 305 I was bidding on.  Lost by a few dollars over my max price.  I can get a T Reproductions 300 for the right price, but they are not lighted.  Also, if I ever get a super 381, it will only fit through the 305.  

I can also get a cream and silver or an all nickel 305, but I think the cream and green looks best on the toy layout. I found a cream and green, but it is $399 plus shipping.

George

Yeah, the 305 has a bit more clearance for some of the monsters.  You can have one of my mint 300's for for half of that though

Not sure a super 381 will fit a 305. It is wider so width will be OK. Not sure if it is any taller than a 300. My 381 Super barely fits the height of a 300. I will push it through but never run it. It is that tight.

Good point, I think that they are the same height.  

F&G RY posted:

Not sure a super 381 will fit a 305. It is wider so width will be OK. Not sure if it is any taller than a 300. My 381 Super barely fits the height of a 300. I will push it through but never run it. It is that tight.

This was discussed a while back.

https://ogrforum.com/t...45#31417102958100945

Apparently the Super 381 will clear the 305, but not the 300.  I am actually more worried about my 400e, but I think that will clear the 300.

George

If I remember correctly, the 305 opening is a fraction taller than the 300. The width is the real feature with the 305, and it's overall length is greater by about two inches.

So it's not an issue of how high.  That makes sense as the 305 is wider.  I thought that the 400e fit through the original?

George S posted:

This was discussed a while back.

https://ogrforum.com/t...45#31417102958100945

The link is the best in-depth comparison of the 300 and 305 bridges, I highly recommend it. It has all the dimensions and info you will ever need. You won't find a better comparison, Hojack did a great job with this and we can all benefit from his actual experiences of dealing with both bridges.

ARNO

Thesepaperwings posted:

So it's not an issue of how high.  That makes sense as the 305 is wider.  I thought that the 400e fit through the original?

The 400E will fit through the original.

Dave- Nice Bridge.  I will have you over to see my layout as soon as I get some more done to it . This Back sure has stopped the progress I was making.

So when I started buy items for my tinplate layout I picked up a MTH Hellgate bridge #300 I didn't care what the color it was.  I always liked it so I wanted one on the layout. When I started building my layout last Aug. I almost thought I was not going to be able to fit it in. But I made the layout 6 inches wider and was able to use it. Everyone that has seen my lay out always say how much they like the bridge.  These Satandard gauge items sure do take up space.  But they are so much fun.

Hi

I live in the NYC area and I do get a chance to see the real Hells Gate Bridge every now and then when I cross the Triboro Bridge (now renamed the RFK Bridge).  I have a question for the group did Lionel ever make a copy of the cement vertical beam with the cement ball on top?

Kris,

   No I do not believe Lionel ever made a Tin Plate version of what you are looking for, got to admit it would look real cool however!

Doc,

    That looks real cool, love to see it some time, hope your back heals up!  I need to due some re-engineeering to put my HG 305 into the Christmas layout, I will need to add about 2" to my trestle for the 2nd level, as I build my Christmas layout next year.  I do believe I will transition from my FasTrack to the Conventional Tubular that Lou originally installed in the 305.   I like the spacing of the Conventional Tubular Lionel Track, for running Dual O gauge trains thru at the same time, in different directions.

PCRR/Dave

nvocc5 posted:

Hi

I live in the NYC area and I do get a chance to see the real Hells Gate Bridge every now and then when I cross the Triboro Bridge (now renamed the RFK Bridge).  I have a question for the group did Lionel ever make a copy of the cement vertical beam with the cement ball on top?

I have always liked those concrete abutments with the ball also.

The whole approach structure is impressive both on the Astoria, Queens side and crossing Randall's Island on the other end, but those stand out for me.

Officially, they are part of what is known as the Little Hellgate Bridge.

They are on my "must model someday" list.

Jim

Reminds me of this...

Dave, Great bridge. I have exactly the same 305. 

Just be careful if you use the bridge with TMCC/Legacy. You need to use a seperate power supply to power the lights. In other words a different transformer from the track power.

Also be very careful installing the track in the bridge. Although it has insulating plastic for the track to sit in I found I had continuity from the track to the bridge! Not good. I wrapped the bottom of the ties with insulating tape. And put a wrap of tape over the lip at each end of the bridge so the Fastrack transition sections pins can't possibly touch the metal of the bridge. 

Nick

Nick,

   Thanks for the lighting tip, I plan to use one of my stand alone KW's for the lighting of the HG 305 so I can adjust the voltage for brightness on the Bridge.  Is there anything special I should know when setting this up?

PCRR/Dave

Thesepaperwings posted:

Yeah, the 305 has a bit more clearance for some of the monsters.  You can have one of my mint 300's for for half of that though

Are your 300's the ones with the Lionel plates?  I think T Repro had to stop using them at one point.

Can you imagine someone scratch building one of those ??  I know there is someone out there that could do it !!

Posted here before, Artist Chris Burden created this version in 1/48 scale...

Dave,

Great idea with putting a dim green or red bulb in the towers. I had never thought about this for our Christmas layout.Thanks forsharing

These old bridges are works of art, today-not so much.

Mill City posted:

Posted here before, Artist Chris Burden created this version in 1/48 scale...

So, two O gauge trains could pass through this mammoth?  That is big!

"So, two O gauge trains could pass through this mammoth?"

I believe prototype was designed to accommodate four. It presently serves three. The above is a 1/48 scale model.

Mill City posted:

Posted here before, Artist Chris Burden created this version in 1/48 scale...

Chris Burden's assistants created the bridge... He just got the idea and the money when it sold.

Mill City posted:

"So, two O gauge trains could pass through this mammoth?"

I believe prototype was designed to accommodate four. It presently serves three. The above is a 1/48 scale model.

Right, I remember now.  I have only taken the train over the real one once or twice.

By the way, the real one does not have illumination in the piers (noticed that last week taking the cab over the RFK), though I think lighting it looks great on a model layout.  Also, it has not been repainted since 1990, when it was painted dark red. That paint failed and only a little remains.  One other nugget I found on wiki, the Germans landed a team in 1942 to try to blow it up, but the plot was foiled.

MrNabisco posted:

Chris Burden's assistants created the bridge... He just got the idea and the money when it sold.

I believe that to be the case with nearly all large installation work. It's true in many fields. But the contractor isn't credited with Fallingwater, Frank Lloyd Wright is.

pinecreek,,,,now you need two, two are better than one,just ask the double mint twins,,,,,

Terry Hudson,

   Oh ya I like that, I like that a lot!   Your Tin Plate layout is outstanding by the way.

PCRR/Dave

Thesepaperwings posted:

Yeah, the 305 has a bit more clearance for some of the monsters.  You can have one of my mint 300's for for half of that though

Thesepaperwings,

I don't see your email listed.  Please email me about your bridges.  I might be interested in one.  

Thanks,

George

The 305 Hellgate was always one of my favorites.

I was reading an article in OGR magazine (Dec 2013) that the 305 was engineered to accommodate locomotives that use TMCC, but never said anything about locos that use Legacy. 

Has anyone ever run a Legacy loco through a Hellgate and had any problems in regards to Cab remote signals?