Adding AutomotionFX Wire-guided Cars to My Layout - 19 Jul 20 Update - Nearing Roadway Completion!

Dustin, You are moving right along getting the new road in.!!

I'm glad your're doing this. I've been tempted to do the same.

Thanks

looks great! really interested to follow your progress on this. will there be any issue with cars climbing back the uphill portion from the lower level part of the road? 

IT does look great!  After this has been shown by you, Lee, Kwizor I am considering laying out my town streets to accommodate it for future cars.  I'm still laying track, so it will be a while.

Very nice Dustin. The tunnel is very prototypical for big cities. New York has 4- Lincoln, Holland, Brooklyn Battery, and Queens-Midtown.

Bob

That looks great, Dustin.

This adds an entirely new dimension to layout planning.  I can't wait to see what develops over time.  

I love it.  One question.  How well do the car do going down that rather steep grade and coming back up?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I love it.  One question.  How well do the card do going down that rather steep grade and coming back up?

GRJ, Jerrman,

The ramp on the layout has a slope of ~0.22, or 12.7 degrees.  The kids and I did some experimenting on slope before the build and found that the Nomad (our only car at the time) could handle a max slope of ~0.3 before it struggled noticeably.   We used a piece of wood with a homemade wire guide and some Duplo blocks for this project.  

The 1:43 Nomad handles the slope on the layout with no issue.  I also have a 1:43 Mustang - it is a little more finicky all around & doesn't always like tight (11" diameter) turns, but if the magnet is adjusted/angled correctly it also has no issues on the ramp.  (If the magnet creates too much drag it can't "push" it uphill without extra weight over the rear wheels). 

It turns out the trickier issue is that when a car pushes over the top of the "hill" to head down, the magnet may momentarily lose the wire and cause the car to wander.   I plan to address this by rounding over the curve at the top of the hill slightly, plus adding a supplemental guide wire just below the road paint. 

These are my findings after 1 day of building and running, so I may have more to report later re: ramp slope.

From what I read in the Faller book, the wire should be right under no more than paint on the surface.  Magnet force falls off as the cube of the distance, so a small amount of extra distance from the wire can make a large difference in steering.  Apparently you can also have the magnetic force too strong, another interesting issue.

Watching with Interest as I've already decided that my upcoming town build will be using this system instead of the Streets stuff I was planning.  Anyone want to buy some Streets track?

GRJ,

I worded that poorly...  I don't think the magnet is creating drag, it's the arm itself holding the magnet.   If too much of it contacts the road surface, there's a lot of friction for the car to overcome on the uphill.

The Automotion FX track has a big iron wire inside - much thicker than Faller wire.  As such, I imagine they can get away with burying it slightly under the MDF and still have good attractive force; I think Lee actually measured this force in some of his early analysis.  In my third pic from the bottom, you can see some of the FX track upside down and one of the actual wires sitting next to my wire cutters (lower left hand corner).  Curved sections come with the wire already glued in place.  The straights have the wire loose so you can remove it if you need to cut the straight.

I also have some Streets track that I'll be selling 

I know the FX track has thicker wire, and I really look forward to a Lee Willis tell-all book about the system, he's clearly the leader in innovating for this new technology.

I have to wonder if it might make sense to consider a tiny servo for steering that would sense the wire and guide it without contact with the roadway.

Pardon my comment, it's just in fun; but who would want to buy Streets track now that we have seen this FX?  

looks gerat can't wait to see a video of it all working 

kevin

looks gerat can't wait to see a video of it all working 

kevin

Would the car follow one of the rails on superstreets?

Don,

I gave that a try, just out of curiosity, before I took the Streets track down.   The magnet on the car just adheres itself to the outside rail, and if you try to use the thinner center rail then the wheels also end-up in the ruts.  It might work if you created some separation between the rail and the magnet...  but I imagine that would start to stray into Rube Goldberg territory 

-Dustin

Thank you Dustin.

@kwisor posted:

looks gerat can't wait to see a video of it all working 

kevin

Kevin, All,

Here's a video of the Nomad running at the end of Day 1 of construction.   Hope to get some more work done tomorrow.

-Dustin

Dustin, You have the nomad running great!!  Excellent job!

Pretty much AWESOME!

Fantastic!!!  I love it!  Just wonderful!!!

The friction from the tiller arm on the road surface can be substantial in some cases.  In particular, I bought some very small magnets and sometimes add a tiny additional one to the one AutomotionFX installs (just hold it close to the tiller arm end and it will jump on top of the magnet installed on the tiller arm, increasing by about 40% the magnetic attraction the arm has).  Makese the car track better.  And on some of my heavier cars (the Brooklin Cadillac I built and a Brooklin Plymouth Station Wagon AutomotionFX converted for me) the second magnet seems necessary to provide the force needed to turn the front wheels in tight turns with that heavy (3 - 4 oz on front axle) weight on it.  The magnet(s) also pull the end of the tiller-arm under it down on the road surface which does create noticeable friction.   If not already installed on it, (AutomotionFX usually does on theirs.  And i learned to always put it on the tiller arms I built) get some slick tape and put a small piece on the tiller arm.  It helps a lot.  This is what I use:

https://www.amazon.com/TapeCas...b3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

It can wear/get pulled off after a while so it the car suddenly doesn't run well, check that, in addition to all the tips on AutomotionFX's video about tuning the steering. 

Ramps down and up in a city is so cool...and prototypical. And, you're city is neat, Dustin. I always wanted to accomplish that with a suburban train but the layout girders have to be aligned and/or cut - very challenging to retrofit into existing benchwork.

John, I should be able to use your Streets stuff...I am planning to build another city on the other side of the basement and Streets work good enough for me. No rush on my part...when you get a chance send me an e-mail and in the meantime I'll take inventory of what I have left over from my first city-build. Thanks.

@Lee Willis posted:

And i learned to always put it on the tiller arms I built) get some slick tape and put a small piece on the tiller arm.  It helps a lot.  This is what I use:

https://www.amazon.com/TapeCas...b3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

Lee, have you looked at Teflon tape?  Teflon Adhesive Tape, I'd be curious how well that made the slider work.

that looks great keep up the good work

kevin

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Lee, have you looked at Teflon tape?  Teflon Adhesive Tape, I'd be curious how well that made the slider work.

Yes.  I can't tell any difference.  They both work as well as the other.

Dustin:

      Amazing work! You've inspired many of us to look into this..

John

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Lee, have you looked at Teflon tape?  Teflon Adhesive Tape, I'd be curious how well that made the slider work.

@Lee Willis posted:

Yes.  I can't tell any difference.  They both work as well as the other.

Thanks, that answers the question, I guess you had very slippery tape.

Lee,

Thank you for the tips!   I bought some tiny (1mm x 2mm) magnets to supplement the tiller magnet on the Mustang.  Three of them did the trick, and it now tracks the 11" curves perfectly.   Also tried the tape you recommended -  it is very slippy as stated & noticeably reduced tiller friction.  Mustang traction on the hill is better but still poor; I plan to add a little back end weight to help it out.    It has plenty of power, but no grip. 

Unrelated question:  Have you tried painting your tillers the color of your road?   I was thinking of doing that to mine to better camouflage them.

All,

I rearranged my "city" to optimize viewing of the towers/interiors when they are lit... and to best line them up new roadways laid out in a logical manner

The AutomotionFX roads won't be the only ones in the city - I have other side roads (and portions of main roads) that complete the city look but won't be "active".  In order to blend them seamlessly, I bought some plain 1/8" MDF to cut my own sections of "dumb" (as in not wired) roads and parking lots:

Here's an example of a dumb road  - the main drag through downtown (darker MDF).  Note how it will intersect cleanly with the FX roads (lighter MDF)

...and another dumb road to the right of the gas station

...and some dumb sections of main road (darker MDF) are also visible in the lower left of this picture - both as components of the main entrance to town and as a strip for parking.   As of this picture, I have removed the majority of the buildings so that I can build their bases & sidewalks.   Since the roads are a uniform 1/8" thickness, I'll make the sidewalks all 1/4" tall for scale 1/8" (6 inch) curbs.   While I'm fabricating bases and sidewalks, I'll also start spackling and painting the roads.  Cat shown for scale.

Also, I did some doodling and settled on a design for the  tunnel ramp entrance.   I decided to go with a mid-century look.  Below you can see the cover "skeleton" glued together.  I plan to fill the gaps with bondo & sand for uniform curves across the top.

Here's a test fit of the tunnel entrance over the ramp.   Back of the ramp (behind this cover) will be covered by a removable panel:

Dustin, where do you find the time with a young family??   The 'dumb' roads look great and will blend in perfectly with the 'active' roads!!  I am going to have to see more of the tunnel entrance ramp once you progress in construction.   What you have done looks great, but I am not visualizing the end result.  Your workmanship is far nicer than what I am able to accomplish these days.   

Update on progress:  It's slow going as I'm working multiple aspects of the layout along the critical path to completing the roads (i.e. ballasting, backgrounds, finishing rear buildings).  I'll constrain the updates here to those actions directly related to the roads themselves in case its useful to anyone seeking to do something similar.

(1) Ramp Issues Resolved:   The Nova has no issues with the ramp, but the Mustang was not so inclined (pun intended).   The rear tires couldn't get purchase on the smooth MDF, even with extra weight added over the rear axle (I used tungsten cylinders intended for pinewood derby cars - it was enough weight to slow the car down, but not enough to noticeably help traction).  I finally had to admit defeat and add some fine grit sandpaper to the "up" ramp.  I did a quick function test before committing:

Here's the traction-assist sandpaper on the up ramp.  It'll be pretty well hidden once all is said and done:

(2) Tunnel Entrance Cover:   Tunnel entrance has been Bondo-ed and sanded smooth for a rounded look.  I plan to some some decorative detail on the sides, plus may have some freeway signs hanging from the top inside.   Mark, I'm ~70% confident it will come out looking cool... but if it doesn't, I can always do something different:

(3) Roadway and adjoining sidewalks:  So far, I have the roadway filled, sanded, and painted - plus I have all the sidewalks/foundations for the buildings cut, scored, and painted a base color.   Some sidewalks have also been installed.

Here are some sidewalk/foundations in place with lines for scoring marked.  For some I just used MDF.   In some places, I used paint stir sticks to help "square off" the area (for laziness reasons):

The MDF piece covering the back half of the ramp will be removable for access & mx:

Once all the sidewalks were fit tested and marked for sidewalks I removed them for scoring/painting., then starting filling the roads.   Here I used lightweight spackle to fill all the cracks in the roads.  Orbital sander with find grit paper worked great for sanding this smooth once it dried:

While the spackle dried I scored all my sidewalks and added some cracks.  For MDF, a good wood burner works great in quickly making these score lines nice and clean:

Here roads are sanded and painted.  Paint applied to roads with a high density foam roller:

Concrete pad for gas station:

Starting to pretty-up the tunnel:

...and finally, I installed some of the completed sidewalk/foundation sections.  I glued them in place using a little wood glue and caulked the gaps between them and the road for a nice smooth curb.   This works best if the bead on the caulk is as small as possible.  Buildings still present on the table in pics below will have the sidewalks built around them as they don't need a foundation:

Great work, Dustin!  Good work on the rough texture to give the Mustang traction!  My 1:1 Mustang always had traction issues as well!    I'm sure the tunnel cover will work out great!  I'm looking forward to seeing the results!

Great work and progress thanks for the detailed shots and love your work! That car automation system is great, look forward to seeing more people incorporate them into their layouts.

Slightly different but I have a slot car track in the center of part of my layout and had used sandpaper like material on the hills for cars loosing traction. However I have found that it tends to wear down the car tires very fast. I had a big truck that was slipping a lot and one day recalled a pile of worn O Gauge train traction tires that had come off of locomotives. I wrapped these around the drive tires and it worked great! While I doubt that you will find a small enough O Gauge rubber tire that might slip over your car tires perhaps you might try some Urethane rubber rings or cast your own! They stick very well. Another alternative is using HO Traction compound like "Bullfrog snot" http://www.bullfrogsnot.com/

looking great love it 

kevin 

Wow!!  Both the work and the photo set are spectacular.  You did the work of blending the Automotion roadway sections together, and at the junction with the layout's static roads much like I did, and as can be seen by your posting it is a lot of work but well worth it.  The pads for the gas station and the sidewalks and curbs are fantastic.  Truly great work everywhere.   

A couple of comments

1) You probably have this planned, but . . . based on experience, wire guided cars occasionally go "of the reservation" - the tiller arm gets slightly tired or bent inadvertently or something and while you aren't watching (I have not had this happen with O-gauge yet, but when I had the N-Gauge Faller system it it would happen, and always while I was looking at something else), so the car jigs where it should have jagged, then it could go off the road, and off the layout!! Ouch.  It is pretty easy to fix the steergin -  you have to do that stuff covered in AutomotionFX's video to "tune" the steering system back to correct orientation, but the trip to the floor if the car goes off the layout would perhaps do wrose damage.    Some guardrails in places would not only look realistic, but will save you a car or two in the future.

2) A have that same AutomotionFX Mustang, and a 2019 model (of my current car) I had them convert.  Both have the same traction challenges.  Your sandpaper idea is inspired - brilliant.  I was also thinking of trying something like Bullfrog Snot on the rear tires to see if it would increase their traction.  

Lee - Good call on the guardrails.   I actually had the Mustang almost go for a dive a few days ago, so I plugged the remaining gap that it tried to sneak through.  My solution to scale cars leaving the scale road was.. well... scale jersey barriers:

Lee & kj356 - Interesting idea with the bullfrog snot... I will have to consider that as an option too, in case needed. 

__________________________________

Roadway Progress:  

(1) I have the sidewalks/curbs mostly done on the "front" half of the town, as of the photo below.   To this point, I had done the following since last update:

a) Painted on curbs (using undiluted Testors concrete acrylic paint)

b) Drawn on curb/sidewalk border (using a pencil; I've also done this with an extra fine marker.  I like pencil better as it's less dark, and will blend a bit in later steps)

c) Painted a few random sidewalk blocks with either undiluted Testors concrete or aged concrete acrylic paint

d) Created a wash of Testors concrete acrylic paint and painted over the whole sidewalk pad surface (Note: the base color is a rustoleum aged gray, lightly sanded after application to ensure its nice and smooth)

(2)  In this section, I have the lift out panel painted and installed over the lower half of the ramp.  Still working out exactly how I want to detail this & whether I'll use the tunnel entrance cover:

(3)  Here, completed sidewalk pads are in the foreground, while those towards the back center are in progress.   There back ones show where I had pre-painted random squares (or squares along seams, or with "cracks"  that look like they should be older) as noted above:

(4)  Here are the rear pads after the wash was applied:

(5) Those black spots along the curb are where I drilled holes for curb gutters.  I drilled holes with a tiny drill bit, gradually expanding each hole until it was about 3/8" wide.   Afterward, I painted the inside of the hole black (plus some slop around the edges.    Plan is to paint a curb-wrapping rectangle around each of these spots with a nice rust color to create the gutters.  There are 15 of them... so it may get tedious.

(6) ...and finally, here is the family photo as of last night, once the last curb gutter was drilled out and pre-painted.  All of the FX cars are well constructed, run well, and a hoot to play with on the layout.. but, for anyone considering jumping in, the Nomad model is the best runner I've tried yet.

 ...more to come as I finish the details on the sidewalk and roads.

Dustin, The sidewalks and streets are looking great!  That Testors concrete color is really nice!  It is all looking wonderful!

Quick update on the curb gutters and road striping...

First, the curb gutters are done!   Painting those was not as bad as I thought it would be.   Used Testors "rust" color, with a couple other browns drybrushed over top for some variation, plus a hint of grungy black:

Next... Road striping.  I had actually bought some road striping vinyl stick-ons at York, but decided that Lee's technique would look much better and provide a more realistic, weathered look.   So, thanks to Lee, I spent the evening dabbing paint into little lines instead of press n' peel   I'm about half finished, and started with the "no brainer" markings... some of the intersections and merge areas will require some thought as to how I want to mark them so I'll do those next.

I used sticky notes to mask & paint the parking spaces & straight road stripes:

...and a combo of sticky notes and FX road templates for lines on the curves

For the crosswalks, I used a combination of cut-up index cards and painters tape (not shown - sorry took no pics of the masking).  The index card pieces allowed me to work out my spacing of the bars in real-time, then just tape them down when I got it right:

Here's a couple shots of what I have so far:

(Edit:  Each of these stripes is 2.5" (or 10 scale feet) long, spaced 15 scale feet apart.   I used white vs. yellow for the centerline as yellow wasn't adopted broadly until the 1970's (from what I read)... and I think the white looks better here anyway.)

...and here's the pile of sticky notes which nobly sacrificed themselves for the cause: 

looking very nice keep up the good work

kevin