Allegheny?

You are correct, the last one produced by Lionel was cataloged in the 2016 Lionel Signature Edition.

Prior was the JLC edition.

I have the 2016 model, Very nice!

8 years.   No legacy or bluetooth back then.   DAVE OLSON _---WE NEED A NEW ONE!

I wonder if it's a Vision Line candidate since it has a decent size fan base. I would probably not be able to afford one, which is a bummer.  But I bet they would sell.

It would be nice if they issued some decent (non-diecast) scale hoppers and a caboose to go with it. I'm still bewildered by the lack of follow-up items to run behind the Class A.

It seems amongst the most likely locomotives to get reran at this point.

I won't really complain since it is one of Lionel's best detailed in-house tooled locomotives of the past 20 some years, but I do agree whether it'll get the Vision treatment or not (seems like a reasonable candidate), the price will be extremely high.

@42trainman posted:

8 years.   No legacy or bluetooth back then.   DAVE OLSON _---WE NEED A NEW ONE!

I think you’re right about Bluetooth, but the 2016 model was definitely Legacy (and whistle steam).  In my view, 2016 was near the tail end of the “sweet spot” of Legacy steam. Colors,  build quality, sound, etc peaked in the 2009ish-2016ish timeframe in my opinion. If you can find a nice copy of the 2016 release, I’m willing to bet you’ll love it. YMMV.

A Legacy Allegheny & caboose sure would be nice!

I’m not trying to hijack this thread but, I’d have to chime in again behind Norm, for an accurate SCALE N&W CF wood caboose. Lionel really needs to compliment their AMAZING Class A. Hopper cars too, for that matter. Kohs did beautifully detailed, various versions, of the N&W caboose. See link below.

https://www.kohs.com/Caboose_P...NW_Cab_Versions.html

Yes, the 2016 version is Legacy which the Catalog says:  Legacy with Smoking Whistle.  Just no Bluetooth...

@ironman1 posted:

I’m not trying to hijack this thread but, I’d have to chime in again behind Norm, for an accurate SCALE N&W CF wood caboose. Lionel really needs to compliment their AMAZING Class A. Hopper cars too, for that matter. Kohs did beautifully detailed, various versions, of the N&W caboose. See link below.

https://www.kohs.com/Caboose_P...NW_Cab_Versions.html

Continuing with the highjack Weaver did some nice brass N&W CF cabooses years back.  Not sure if the drawings still exist, or if so what would be required to produce them in plastic.  Malcolm a/k/a Brother Love has also made some custom CF cabooses more recently.  Maybe we could prevail upon him to turn out a limited run.

My understanding was that the Norfolk & Western Class A was intended as a fast freight loco.  I'm sure they logged miles on hopper trains over the years, but a Y Class loco would probably be more appropriate for a string of hoppers.  I'm not as up on the C&O, but my understanding is they used the Allegheny the same way as N&W used their Class A.  If so then a string of boxcars might be a better choice.

Bill;

Actually, I had that conversation with Malcolm when he produced those models years ago. They were excellent and at the time I asked if he'd be interested in creating a master that could be used as a foundation for a resin kit or trans-kit. His reply was he didn't know anything about resin casting & there were elements in that build that were more complicated than he wanted to deal with. Although I'm no expert at resin casting, I have done some successful projects for detail pieces that I needed duplicates of. I also have an unbuilt quality craft kit I was going to use as master's for the detail parts. I explained that he would create the master of the main body & I would do the castings & detail parts. He wasn't interested. I bought a Division Point CF caboose shortly after.

In hindsight, I could almost guarantee that once a project like got rolling, Lionel would probably make one!

Joe

@Bill N posted:

My understanding was that the Norfolk & Western Class A was intended as a fast freight loco.    I'm not as up on the C&O, but my understanding is they used the Allegheny the same way as N&W used their Class A.

Even though the Allegheny was designed as a high speed (relatively) engine its primary usage was to drag strings of coal cars over the Allegheny grade between Hinton, WVA and Clifton Forge, VA. They essentially replaced the H7 2-8-8-2's which were pretty well worn out before WWII. There has been some controversy as to why the C&O had these built and then put into drag freight service. Seems like a misapplication of a fine design. Of course there were times they were used for freight manifests and occasional troop trains during the war so they weren't exclusively used for coal drags.

The Lionel Allegheny is a excellent rendition of the last (fifth) order of Alleghenies. I was disappointed when Lionel went and put numbers 1601 and 1604 on their last run. Those two engines may be the only Alleghenies still in existence, but they were from the first order to Lima and differ in some minor details from the Lionel model. Most people would consider this to be rivet counting, but at around $1600 and already having the JLC version with a correct third order number, I didn't see any point in purchasing the run from eight years ago. However, if there is another run in the near future and Lionel has a version with a correct number, I'm in.

Ken

@kanawha posted:

The Lionel Allegheny is a excellent rendition of the last (third) order of Alleghenies. I was disappointed when Lionel went and put numbers 1601 and 1604 on their last run. Those two engines may be the only Alleghenies still in existence, but they were from the first order to Lima and differ in some minor details from the Lionel model. Most people would consider this to be rivet counting, but at around $1600 and already having the JLC version with a correct third order number, I didn't see any point in purchasing the run from eight years ago. However, if there is another run in the near future and Lionel has a version with a correct number, I'm in.

Ken

Ken, where does the MTH Allegheny fit in here as far as cab numbers and their prototypes?

Pete

Thank you for the info Ken.  As I said not a C&O person.  It does seem to be a misapplication of the design.

@Norton posted:

Ken, where does the MTH Allegheny fit in here as far as cab numbers and their prototypes?

Pete

I don't know much about the different runs of the MTH Alleghenies, but the easiest spotting feature is the overfire jets on the sides of the firebox. Only 1645 - 1659 have overfire jets. These are on the Lionel model. The JLC version is numbered 1650 so that one's right. There are a few other spotting features involving the number of window panes in the cab and the ladder just in front of the cab.

The Virginian's use of their Alleghenies (called Blue Ridges) is more curious than C&O's. The Virginian was almost exclusively a coal hauler. Coal was moved from central WVA to Roanoke with electric power so the Alleghenies were not used in the mountains. The Blue Ridges were used on coal drags between Roanoke and Norfolk. Mostly downhill and rolling hill/flatland. The few manifest freight trains were handled by Mikados and later the Virginia version of the C&O Kanawha. When the Virginian dieselized the Blue Ridges were replaced on eastbound coal trains by two Baby Trainmasters.

Ken

Interesting, good stuff.   I would consider a JLC, except I run most everything from the orange universal remotes, so BT is important to me.   But, possibly this will change after the base3?  Who knows.... we'll see...

This is the Allegheny I should have bought back when I got the JLC. This is a 3rd Rail Anniversary Edition ca. 2006. I just got it not too long ago and it’s in the shop getting a proper setup. First thing I fixed was the backward eccentrics:

Also found this nice caboose for it at a 2 rail show. Just needed a little cleanup and some weathering:

I tried to find the Atlas Trainman one from a few years ago with no luck.

Absolutely, the Sunset/3rd Rail C&O H8 model was/is the finest example ever produced in 3-Rail Scale. The models even have reversing valve gear.

My first scale engine was the JLC version (I went big!).  I love it - the detail is great.  I don't know if the whistle is prototypical or not, but it still sounds great.  The Legacy looks just like it but with the additional Legacy features, so I decided I didn't want to get it.

I was debating between the JLC and the 3rd rail at the time - they were about the same price.  I decided I wanted the the better electronics so I went with the JLC.

I pull nothing but a coal drag with it.  I also got the MTH PS1 version cheap and upgraded it to EOB, so I can now run both together pulling the cars.  The video below are the two engines pulling all my dicast cars.  I have another ~30 plastic cars I did not pull out.

This MTH version has the overfire jets cast in (not separately applied), so they look to be based on the 3rd version with the early numbers.

Here is a close-up a little after I got it on an old layout with all the cars I had at the time.

It runs really well.  I can get it to run better with a Cruise M, but I'm happy the way it is.

@Hot Water posted:

Absolutely, the Sunset/3rd Rail C&O H8 model was/is the finest example ever produced in 3-Rail Scale. The models even have reversing valve gear.

An amazing feature yet to be attempted by anyone else. I am replacing the EOB system with ERR so I can get smoother starts to show it off better.

I liked my JLC enough at the time but eventually sold it because of the whistle being incorrect. It had ok chuffing sounds with a correct rate though. The 3rd Rail actually has a better RS4 whistle.

As a C&O enthusiast, I was immediately intrigued when you mentioned this at the April York show, Norm.

Needless to say, I can't wait to see it all weathered. Normally I'm not a fan of the generic RailSounds audio boards, but in this case, I'm glad Lionel kept that awesome hooter whistle from the 1999 Allegheny during that time. It fits this model exquisitely.

I'm in agreement with most of what was discussed here.    I just hope Ryan and Dave are reading too!   A C&O Allegheny would be great, but if they did a Legacy or Vision Blue Ridge, the "train internet" would break!!!   Let's do it, put me down for one today.

I’d be in for one. I always go for the more prototypical paint schemes, but I look forward to seeing a bright orange C&O Allegheny…