Already bored to tears with my layout

Pingman posted:

BPars posted:

Pingman posted:

How old are the kids?  I ask because, obviously, a kid's interests will vary with age, as will his/her abilities.

For example, are you children old enough to assist in building a table?  Wiring?  Assembling structures?  Painting animal and people figures?  Etc.?

Also, are you opposed to operating accessories?  I ask because most kids enjoy them--but will you?

Good luck.

 

They are 11, 9 and 6.  Not really old enough to help me with building the layout. But I like your idea of getting some operating accessories to help hold their interest

Granted, they can't build a layout.  But, the 11 year old can surely help you measure something before you make a cut.  He can help you select the right screw you need. 

The 9 year old can hand you tools and learn what they are used for.  And electricity can be taught with wiring.

My point is simply that including the kids in "building the layout" is much more than simply doing the job--a big part of it is "helping DAD" do it. 

Pingman has good advice here. I have always let my grandson try to do anything he wants to on the layout or in just building things in the basement. Been doing this with him since he was 4 or 5. I give him the tools and let him go, advising him on their use as we go along. If he gets stuck I help him, if not I just let him go. I ask him questions about what we are along along the way. I also watch him very closely so he doesn't hurt himself. I realize that this is much easier with just one child rather than three. But the point is to get them involved like Pingman says, even a little involvement might spark their interest. And the kids always like to help Dad do things! It sometimes takes patience!

I would add that he is eleven now and the only power tool I let him use is a battery drill. And as I said, I watch him very carefully so he doesn't get hurt!!

BPars posted:

I'm looking for some advice....I hate to admit it but I am already bored with my month old layout. It was nice when the kids were interested and wanted to sit on the floor and "race" the trains around the track but now they are over it while I'm just getting started.  I knew this layout would be temporary but I didn't realize how quickly it would fade.

I was hoping to get some advice on how best to design a layout that will hold my interest. Something more prototypical, I guess. I see many pictures of cool layouts on here but not sure how to start over with what I have already.

I currently have accumulated , 10 O72 switches, 6 O36 switches, full circles of O72, O60, O48 and O36. 22 1/2 degree crossover, 45 degree crossover, 2 90 degree crossovers and a bizillion straights of various lengths. All fastrack. 

Any ideas on how to turn this mess of parts into an interesting layout would be greatly appreciated. 

Check out my newest video:  Loads In / Empties out....just posted.  This adds realism, action, fun and involvement for the layout operator. 

Regardless of the trackplan, a display layout can quickly become boring. When I first started out in the hobby, I built a few layouts in 3 rail. It took a couple of tries for me to realize that once I had the track down, wired, and tested, I began to loose interest. I would get the feeling of “is this all there is?”

Then I started to learn about operations, meaning some way to use the trains to simulate moving freight from place to place, ie switching cars and trains having a job to do.

My suggestion is to set up a simple operating scheme with a interchange or two and some other industries. An interchange is simply a track defined as a connection to another railroad, or a larger/different part of the same RR. It is the connection from your RR to the outside world. So you define an interchange and then you designate some industrial tracks. The basic operation is to move cars between the interchange and the industries.

It is easy to develop a simple operating system using car cards. Car cards are simply small (3x5 or smaller) cards with pockets attached. You create a car card for each car on the layout with the car number and reporting marks, and car type. Then you create a bunch of waybills. The waybills are smaller cards that fit in the pockets on the car cards. You put the name of an industry one side of the waybill and the name of an interchange (or another industry) on the other side of the waybill. It is probably a good idea to also include the car type since different industries use different car types You make many more waybills for each car type than car cards. Some fellows color code the waybills by car type. Store the waybills by car type.

Now to get started you place your cars around the layout, roughly the same number on the interchanges as the total on the industrial tracks. Randomly pull waybills for each car card and put them in the pockets. The waybills for the cars on the interchange should have the side visible naming an industry on the layout. The ones that industries should have the side showing an interchange or another industry. The layout is now set up for the first session.

The basic operation is to get an engine and a caboose (if your RR uses them), and run to the interchange. There pick up the cars on the interchange and make up your train. You can arrange it (block the cars) in the order you want to service the industries, or not. Then run the train around the layout and set out and pickup the cars at each industry on the layout. Finally run the train back to the interchange and set out the cars picked up and return the engine and caboose to engine house if you have one. The run itself may just be to the other side of a loop.

To set up the next operating session, pull the waybill on each car at an industry, turn it over so the return destination is visible, and replace it. Then pull the waybills from each car on the interchange and replace them with new ones (randomly drawn) that specify a new destination. The RR is ready for the next session, and if you did sort of randomly draw the waybills from the stacks, it should be different from the one you just did. In other words, the cars will go to different industries.

My first “operating” layout had about 12-15 cars on it and 6-8 industries. I used a simple operating scheme such as described. I had two interchanges, one for the PRR and one for the C&O. I think one was 3 cars and the other held 4 cars. It took me almost an hour to run a train as described above.

Now I wrote that the track plan was not important. But to do this, it is nice to have a double ended siding where the locomotive can run around the train, so you can work sidings in either direction.

“Operations” can make the layout much more interesting and reduce potential boredom.

Took me quite a while to design a layout that is fun to operate. Decided on a point-to-point with reverse loops at each end, wanted multiple Industries with the ability to run 2 trains on a single local line. I've been operating on it for a couple years, still having fun with it, and haven't made any major changes to it so far.

Good Luck!

Bruce

BPars posted:

I'm looking for some advice....I hate to admit it but I am already bored with my month old layout. It was nice when the kids were interested and wanted to sit on the floor and "race" the trains around the track but now they are over it while I'm just getting started.  I knew this layout would be temporary but I didn't realize how quickly it would fade.

I was hoping to get some advice on how best to design a layout that will hold my interest. Something more prototypical, I guess. I see many pictures of cool layouts on here but not sure how to start over with what I have already.

I currently have accumulated , 10 O72 switches, 6 O36 switches, full circles of O72, O60, O48 and O36. 22 1/2 degree crossover, 45 degree crossover, 2 90 degree crossovers and a bizillion straights of various lengths. All fastrack. 

Any ideas on how to turn this mess of parts into an interesting layout would be greatly appreciated. 

This was a big concern for us when designing and building the layout until we discovered the "truth" about it; it will always be a work-in-progress as we're always saying to each other, "hey, what if we changed that and added this!" ... the layout will never be "done."  Keeps it challenging, that's for sure!

Lots of good advice here especially about making the layout operational. What you already have is good looking except that it's on the floor and there's no character to it because there's no scenery. Scenery is a personal thing and a huge dimension within the hobby as is planning the layout, building the benchwork, wiring and so on. Then there's conventional vs digital (DSC, TMCC/Legacy) control and wiring the layout for best digital performance. For me, being able to move, connect, disconnect and manage cars at prototypical speeds is everything. And my layout is smaller than yours. I haven't gotten to the smart way of doing it (card cars and waybills) yet so I just make it up as I go along. Still, it never gets old.

Along with some scenery you may be able to fit this Inglenook in the center. Takes a while to solve one.

PRR Bruce posted:

Took me quite a while to design a layout that is fun to operate. Decided on a point-to-point with reverse loops at each end, wanted multiple Industries with the ability to run 2 trains on a single local line. I've been operating on it for a couple years, still having fun with it, and haven't made any major changes to it so far.

Good Luck!

Bruce

I love this design. Good to see it built. It's an "operator's layout" that can be run continuously. Might be tricky expanding the curve radius for 2-rail or large 3-rail equipment, but the design and execution are beautiful.

I agree Matt. Lots of operating options with no reaching over .  This is a good one.

AGHRMatt posted:

PRR Bruce posted:

Took me quite a while to design a layout that is fun to operate. Decided on a point-to-point with reverse loops at each end, wanted multiple Industries with the ability to run 2 trains on a single local line. I've been operating on it for a couple years, still having fun with it, and haven't made any major changes to it so far.

Good Luck!

Bruce

I love this design. Good to see it built. It's an "operator's layout" that can be run continuously. Might be tricky expanding the curve radius for 2-rail or large 3-rail equipment, but the design and execution are beautiful.

What is the radius of the reversing loops?

Moonman posted:

Along with some scenery you may be able to fit this Inglenook in the center. Takes a while to solve one.

 

This is a great idea! Thank you for sharing. 

I like it !!

I say if your bored this easy, just sell what you have and find another hobby. 

david1 posted:

I say if your bored this easy, just sell what you have and find another hobby. 

Suuuuper helpful advice. 

I love the John Allen's  "Time Saver" layout that was built in HO.  Even if a person only had a shelf a foot wide....and depending on car/engine length...8 to 10 feet long, one could do the TIMESAVER.  It was designed as a game of sorts to entertain operators waiting their turn on Mr. Allen's layout.

It is amazing how long it takes to switch a few cars around.  You have to think about it as well.  Real railroaders do this daily.   

John C. posted:

I love the John Allen's  "Time Saver" layout that was built in HO.  Even if a person only had a shelf a foot wide....and depending on car/engine length...8 to 10 feet long, one could do the TIMESAVER.  It was designed as a game of sorts to entertain operators waiting their turn on Mr. Allen's layout.

It is amazing how long it takes to switch a few cars around.  You have to think about it as well.  Real railroaders do this daily.   

I have been reading about these two puzzle layouts since MOONMAN's post.  It is the first I have heard of them and I really think it will be fun for me and the kids. I am going to try to incorporate them into the layout this weekend.

BPars posted:

......... It was nice when the kids were interested and wanted to sit on the floor and "race" the trains around the track but now they are over it while I'm just getting started.  I knew this layout would be temporary but I didn't realize how quickly it would fade........

One thing came to mind as I read your post, and that would be in integrating slot cars (1:43) with your trains.  That would hold the interest of the children, satisfy their need for speed (racing), and allow for a good amount of interaction.  For you, consider adding micro-chip control from a system like the Arduino or Picaxe.  You'll never be bored!  Just my 2 cents.

Any layout on a flat surface with no grades or hidden areas quickly makes for boring operation in my opinion. Get rid of the flat train board and switch to open grid L-Girder construction. Buy a copy of Linn Wescott's book on model railroad benchwork and learn how to build risers and grades so that trains come and go and at times are hidden from sight. When you see the trains continuously go round and round it is BORING! You need changes in elevation and scenery that at times hides the trains. Also, operating accessories eg. a turntable or transfer table add interest. 

The starting point is having a plan that you are happy with. Sometimes a bit of trial and error comes into play. The idea being you have to sort of be like a fighter pilot. When flying he is not seeing in front of him he is seeing further away. The track is an interesting one with some good possibilities. The main focal point is building it for you. Yes it is nice to have your kids and grandkids involved but who is to say how long their interest will last before it wanes with all the electronic toys out there. All these post have given you so many options. But before you go further maybe you should ask yourself if you are pretty much satisfied with the plan. Also if you have the given space you could make sure that you have places where you can extend the layout for more fun down the road. I learned that from my layout. My attic layout was to have everything but after starting construction I was limited to what I could do so a number if things were eliminated. Now after many years I am building a layout in the basement which will be just about all switching. I still enjoy running trains in a circle but I would like to take it to the next level. Just don't get frustrated. Rome was not built in a day. And you can add accessories, buildings and scenery that will make a big difference too..................Paul

Here's a before and after of one of the first areas I worked on. I had fun building it, especially the freight platforms.. This will be a team track area where various freight will be loaded and unloaded.

Bob

Bruce's layout in 2 rail,  Joe G and I did this in '09.  VERY functional!

Please take a look at my layout design in the link It is also in my signature.  We took a point to point concept John C suggested, and made into a loop to loop.  I am very excited to get started on it!  I'll write more later; lunch hour is over.  

Mark Boyce posted:

Please take a look at my layout design in the link It is also in my signature.  We took a point to point concept John C suggested, and made into a loop to loop.  I am very excited to get started on it!  I'll write more later; lunch hour is over.  

This is going to be a great project.  The theme is very good as well.  :-)  Looking forward to future progress.  I know you (Mark) have given this a great deal of thought.

Your layout is not a lot different than my layout. I have a long but narrow layout with as much track per sq ft as is possible. The idea of adding scenery is definitely a big pat of the answer as well as getting it off the floor. I would also recommend rearranging the track plan and run a backdrop the length of the layout but place it somewhere in the middle part of the track plan to get away from the perspective of the trains running around in circles. this kind of backdrop makes the trains disappear for a time.. If you want to see that idea in action you can look at the youtube video of my layout. My layout is about 6 ft wide and 30 ft long.

Another thing you might try is locate some other model railroaders in the area and with them just have a ball running trains.

Ray

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaPD8G6f3HU&t=9s

One simple change I'd make is turning the trains. It looks like all three of the trains are facing the same direction. If you reverse the direction of one of them, it will look like trains are coming from somewhere and going somewhere else.

You could use both loops as mains, or you could use the outer loop as the main, with that passing siding, and use the inner loop as your yard lead.

And signals are almost a must if you have remote switches. (They are a must on the real thing if there are power switches on the main) If you use your outer loop as a bi-directional main, you can face the signals in both directions to emphasize this. 

You could use one side of the yard for passenger cars, and the other for freight. Or you could use both yards for freight and make one the receiving yard (inbound cars) and one the departure yard (outbound cars). 

Part of the fun of running a layout is to add animation and scenery. If you are continually revising,  rerouting track, and adding scenery it can never be boring.   If you have areas of activity where the train can stop to pick up passengers at a station, unload/load coal, milk cans, cattle, ice, horses, culvert pipes and lumber that will keep things busy for hours on end.   Add signaling, sound, lighting and some prototype features. Build a small town scene, a few mountains, a river valley.  Run both freight and passenger service.  How can one ever be bored with that?????

This quality of responses to some of the posts on this forum absolutely amazes me and this one has got to be one of the best.  If you just took the comments, advance, and the additional information provided via the links in this post, you would have a great layout starter book, sort of a train version of what to expect when your expecting.  Which leaves me hesitant to comment, but I'm going to risk it anyway.

As stated before, going in circles gets boring.  If you asked for my assistance, I would suggest halving your layout to make a small central "town", then take the remain track and create "routes" to "other places".  When my twins where 6, I would set each one at a switch, and let them know to turn it red or green.  Then I'd run the train by as "they sent the train" to another location.  Cardboard boxes can make great lumber mills by the forest or other industries, go pick up some lumber for the towns hardware store.  Build a hot wheels factory and deliver cars to the races. Grab your lego minifigures, or other small play people, they can be taken for rides in the gondolas.  Collect animals, build a zoo, etc.  Use this as a step to start to build a more permanent center, and redesign the extension from time to time.  As your kids get older, your layout can become more complex and keep their interests.  Oh, and yes, when we had "train day" there were trains we all played with together, and then there where the "special" trains where they "just watched"!  My comments are intent to inspire you to have fun, and with no ill will or assumptions.

Best wishes and have fun!

Surprising how much more activity one can gain by adding some trackage/feature.  We added a 6-track stub-end freight yard and now making up a road freight can take up 45 minutes, not counting dispatching a road engine from the roundhouse area ...

You can see the entire train on that layout and it does not go anywhere.

The trains need to go somewhere on a long, 3 foot wide around the wall track plan. Find at least 20 feet on each leg so the track travels into the distance to new locations. '

Andrew

Tom Tee posted:

Bruce's layout in 2 rail,  Joe G and I did this in '09.  VERY functional!

Tom,

Your layout was the inspiration for mine! Used your design, and replaced the Turntables with tight radius (031) Reverse Loops. Have collected Traditional smaller locomotives that navigate the 031 reverse loops just fine, the longest train I can run is 11 cars. Would have gone with your original turntables if I had collected scale sized engines that require bigger radius turns.

It's a great operator's layout, and I'm glad that I get to thank you for providing this design. Thanks Tom, have been very pleased with the operation thus far!

Bruce

First get if off the floor onto some bench-work.  Then build scenery.  I'm into subways so my scenery is subways and elevated rapid transit.  If you want a rural setting you have many options, towns, farms, industries, etc.  You can even add signals.  When you start doing these things your kids will come running back.  And then you could share with the community via Youtube, etc.  Believe me there will be no boredom.  Good Luck.