American Flyer Minnie Ha Ha

I have a set with 3 coaches, but they are all the same, no tail car. I assume this set is the original consist. My set is a wind-up set.

Regards

Fred

Ah, the mystery deepens.  Greenberg describes three versions of the combined engine tender model (described as Champion sets), all of which were produced in 1935.  They are described as No. 960-T New York Central set with electric loco/tender combination, one streamlined coach and one observation (total length 27"); No. 964-T Minnie Ha Ha electric set with same consist plus the addition of an extra coach (total length 35"), and the No. 816 clockwork powered Streamliner set with two coaches and one observation car (total length 35"). Despite the different names, all are described as orange and silver in colour.  Greenberg also describes an uncatalogued clockwork Streamliner set with two coaches only and no observation car.  Unfortunately, Greenberg has no pictures of any of these sets.  It appears there may be an observation car that has a different appearance than the coaches.  If so, I'd sure like to see one.

My two car set, both coaches look the same. No unique observation.  I am curious also.

Steve

  The sets are either two or three cars (all the same) and sort of a burnt orange/silver for the electric and an almost rose/silver for the clockwork (in theory anyway - based on one of the above posts it looks like they also made clockwork in orange too).  The consumer catalog for 1935 does say "observation" for the third car in the three car set and the tail car in both the two car and the three car set is drawn to give the indication of a different car.  However, in other advertising issued that year the three car set is described as "964-T Minnie Ha Ha same train as above but with one additional car."  The above set being referenced is the two car #960-T New York Central.  If you look at the consumer catalog cut there are other differences between the picture and the final product namely the fact that the trucks in the catalog cut are completely hidden under the car whereas the production item has cutouts in the car side to permit truck movement.

  An additional item - 53 minutes after posting the above - the earlier Greenberg book does mention the observation but the last version states observed sets have been found with coaches only.

Thanks, Robert.  This finally starts to make sense.  I must have the earlier Greenberg Guide.  So there likely never was an "observation" car distinct from the coaches.  I now also understand why the 960-T was called New York Central.  It's a Commodore Vanderbilt engine shape.  I had always assumed these were Hiawatha models due to the colour schemes.  Now all I need to know is why the name "Minnie Ha Ha"?  It certainly suggests "Minneapolis", but maybe there is some other NYC connection?? 

I also have to laugh at the description in the catalog of "piston rod action".  I don't see any pistons or piston rods.  Guess a connecting rod was an innovation in 1935.

I propose someone at Flyer took one look at it and started laughing, so Ha Ha.

Steve

  What it looks like is that 1935 might have been Flyer's year of indecision or perhaps just the year they were asleep at the switch.

   They had produced a credible version of the Burlington Zephyr in 1934 but by 1935 they were faced with the onslaught of the art deco streamlined look of steam.  At that point the two most prominent streamlined engines would have been the NYC Commodore Vanderbilt (unveiled December14, 1934) and the Milwaukee Hiawatha (delivered May 1935).  

  If you look at these two sheet metal engines and the 1935-year-only cast aluminum #9915 (the engine some people insist on calling the Aeolus because it sort of resembles the 1937 built CB&Q locomotive) it is easy to see that Flyer attempted to straddle the streamlined look of the two prototypes and give the buyer an engine with a generic streamlined look of both without really looking like either one.

  Perhaps in an earlier time in the world of toy trains they could have gotten away with this but by 1935 it would appear (from the dismal sales record) that people wanted toys that looked a lot more like a specific prototype.  

  On the other hand it could be that Flyer was simply caught off guard and didn't/couldn't respond fast enough.  I have no idea of how long it would take to tool up for a toy train and I don't know when the Flyer 1935 catalog hit the stands but the prototype introduction dates would not have left a lot of time for bringing a new model to market.  If this was the case then perhaps the best they could do was try to offer something/anything that had the look of the two most famous streamlined steam engines of the day.

Makes sense to me, Robert.  Again, thanks for the insight.  Robin

Perhaps it should be called a MANY Ha Ha?

These old articulated streamlers fascinate me. Gonna have to add one to my collection someday.

You all need to brush up on your American literature.  Minehaha was the wife of Hiawatha, in Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's epic poem, "The Song of Hiawatha".  Hiawatha was an historical chief of the Iroquois nation, but Longfellow used the name in 1885 to write his poem about native Americans living around Lake Superior.  The poem begins with the line

"On the shores of Gitchee Gumee..." , which is the Ojibwe name for Lake Superior.

Longfellow wove together many native legends in the writing of the poem, which contains many historical inaccuracies and is somewhat out of favor today since it is a white man's take on native culture, and rather over-romanticized at that.  

However, it was an extremely important work in its time; it captured the imagination of the young country with what came across at the time as a sensitivity to the native cultures that were here before us.  The poem uses repetition, alliteration, and a dramatic cadence of four beats per line (trochaic tetrameter) to help paint a picture of the unspoiled America before the coming of Europeans.  It became part of the national consciousness, and the Milkwaukee Road named its famous train in direct reference to the epic.  American Flyer was very safe naming a train the Minehaha: every American schoolchild knew who she was!

 As I was heading out the door to run a few errands I realized I forgot to answer your question about Minniehaha but I see that Hojack has covered that part of the discussion.  

   I spent part of my life in Minneapolis and there is a Minniehaha falls and park which I went to many times.  Every time we would go my Dad would insist on reciting The Song of Hiawatha on the drive over (with us kids cringing in the back seat and Mom rolling her eyes).

  This does bring me to one other thing I meant to mention and that is the choice of litho treatment for these Flyer engines and cars.  I'm sure Flyer chose the orange to give the impression of the Hiawatha but I've often wondered why they chose a reddish rose color instead of a metallic or medium gray for the second treatment.  

  If they had offered the engine and consists in orange and silver and gray and silver they would have at least provided a visual sense of the Hiawatha and the Commodore Vanderbilt which, in turn, would have provided a match for the differences in set names.

This really does bring it all together, even though I feel like a bit of an idiot, being Canadian and not remembering this epic poem which we all learned in school as well. Many thanks to Hojack and Robert Butler for their contributions. Another OGR Forum success. 

One further item about the Song of Hiawatha, Longfellow got his inspiration from his correspondence with the Indian agent Henry Schoolcraft, at Sault Ste Marie, Michigan (East end of Lake Superior).  Schoolcraft collected stories from the local tribal members, which Longfellow read. Some of the place names in Longfellow's work can still be found in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

"Minnehaha" was also the name of a Milwaukee Road passenger car as well as the name of a small Milwaukee Road depot in Minnesota.

Bob Nelson  

If such a observation car was made, I would envision it being a painted version of the 9900 Zephyr observation. Size, trucks, couplers are all compatible.