Any Louisville & Nashville fans Unusual GP-7 in Unusual L&N livery

Now there's an oddity!

Like the way "EBAY" is hand scribbled onto the print/whatever to foil those evil people that might be be interested in saving the small "sample" scan instead of buying their "gold mine" slide/print/whatever at a likely over inflated price.

Andre

Great Gooley-Moogley:

The U.S. Army also ordered GP7's with type A swticher trucks

Rusty

JohnActon posted:

Trolling The WWW for L&N  Alco  RS-3's paint schemes I ran across this L&N GP-7 wearing an unusual paint scheme as well as unusual trucks, AAR type A switcher trucks instead of the usual EMD Blomberg B four wheel trucks. With a little more digging I found a descriptive paragraph (below) on the loco. Anyone have a spare Lionel  NW-2 or Alco FA, loco trucks and motor ?       The photos are by Ron Flanary.     j

L&N GP7 no. 490 was one of the first such units built by EMD, with a build date of January 1950. It was the "class" unit of a six-engine order for the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis, which merged into the L&N in 1957. The L&N renumbered this one (NC&StL 700) to 1700, and (in 1965) to 490. The units all came with AAR switcher trucks and (amazingly), friction bearings. It's shown here on an L&N to Pennsy transfer run, still wearing its NC&StL red and gold paint scheme. It was a rare find, even in 1966.

These trucks were most likely on a switcher they traded in to EMD for the GP it saved some money . I have also custom painted this maroon or crimson and yellow paint scheme for forum member TM Terry

Bernie

Scratchbuilder1-48 posted:

JohnActon posted:

Trolling The WWW for L&N  Alco  RS-3's paint schemes I ran across this L&N GP-7 wearing an unusual paint scheme as well as unusual trucks, AAR type A switcher trucks instead of the usual EMD Blomberg B four wheel trucks. With a little more digging I found a descriptive paragraph (below) on the loco. Anyone have a spare Lionel  NW-2 or Alco FA, loco trucks and motor ?       The photos are by Ron Flanary.     j

L&N GP7 no. 490 was one of the first such units built by EMD, with a build date of January 1950. It was the "class" unit of a six-engine order for the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis, which merged into the L&N in 1957. The L&N renumbered this one (NC&StL 700) to 1700, and (in 1965) to 490. The units all came with AAR switcher trucks and (amazingly), friction bearings. It's shown here on an L&N to Pennsy transfer run, still wearing its NC&StL red and gold paint scheme. It was a rare find, even in 1966.

These trucks were most likely on a switcher they traded in to EMD for the GP it saved some money .

Hard to believe that any railroad would be "trading-in" switcher models in the 1950s. More likely that the L&N specifically ordered it that way, or made the modification to down-grade the GP7 to solely yard duty by changing out the trucks.

 

Bernie

laming posted:

Now there's an oddity!

Like the way "EBAY" is hand scribbled onto the print/whatever to foil those evil people that might be be interested in saving the small "sample" scan instead of buying their "gold mine" slide/print/whatever at a likely over inflated price.

Andre

Owning or possessing the piece of film or a print that the image is on does not infer ownership of the image. Most copyrights on images used for educational purposes are mute.  Is this not an educational forum ?  Just so long as we don't reproduce and sell copies we are within the law.  I fought this issue several times. After receiving a degree in engineering I crushed my mothers aspirations for me by opening a commercial photography business. I then spent almost thirty years behind a camera and had to defend my copyright several times.    j

Hot Water posted:

Scratchbuilder1-48 posted:

JohnActon posted:

Trolling The WWW for L&N  Alco  RS-3's paint schemes I ran across this L&N GP-7 wearing an unusual paint scheme as well as unusual trucks, AAR type A switcher trucks instead of the usual EMD Blomberg B four wheel trucks. With a little more digging I found a descriptive paragraph (below) on the loco. Anyone have a spare Lionel  NW-2 or Alco FA, loco trucks and motor ?       The photos are by Ron Flanary.     j

L&N GP7 no. 490 was one of the first such units built by EMD, with a build date of January 1950. It was the "class" unit of a six-engine order for the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis, which merged into the L&N in 1957. The L&N renumbered this one (NC&StL 700) to 1700, and (in 1965) to 490. The units all came with AAR switcher trucks and (amazingly), friction bearings. It's shown here on an L&N to Pennsy transfer run, still wearing its NC&StL red and gold paint scheme. It was a rare find, even in 1966.

These trucks were most likely on a switcher they traded in to EMD for the GP it saved some money .

Hard to believe that any railroad would be "trading-in" switcher models in the 1950s. More likely that the L&N specifically ordered it that way, or made the modification to down-grade the GP7 to solely yard duty by changing out the trucks.

 

Bernie

 

The L&N acquired The NC&StL railroad in 1957 who had purchased 37 Geeps from EMD the first six in 1950 came from EMD with the AAR trucks.  Note the small L&N on the side of the loco obviously NC&StL was removed though the red and cream livery remains.  Another point to notice is the skirt over the fuel tank is near solid on both sides, later geeps had several access holes cut in, then the skirts started to be whittled away till they disappeared on most GP-9s This just cries out to be a bash project.                                 j

This has lived the last few years in Dodge City, Kansas.   It maybe ex Army or L&N????

CBS072 posted:

This has lived the last few years in Dodge City, Kansas.   It maybe ex Army or L&N????

Probably neither. The unit has Alco AAR Type B trucks and a larger fuel tank.

Rusty

I did some checking and 1810 is ex Army (USAX 1812)? built 1951. And it's a ex movie star.

CBS072 posted:

This has lived the last few years in Dodge City, Kansas.   It maybe ex Army or L&N????

Wish we knew its ownership history.  Is that a EMD nose chop or aftermarket ?  The trucks are not the usual Blomberg, again they are AAR but type B with leaf springs and roller bearings  as opposed to the type A with babbitt brass oil bath  bearings on L&N 490. Trying to figure just what geep this is. it has a full skirt without access holes and a chop nose which makes me think it is an aftermarket chop. ???   Would be nice if you could stop by and take a look at it's builders plate.  Early GP-18 ? Some had chop noses.              j

JohnActon posted:

CBS072 posted:

This has lived the last few years in Dodge City, Kansas.   It maybe ex Army or L&N????

Wish we knew its ownership history.  Is that a EMD nose chop or aftermarket ?  The trucks are not the usual Blomberg, again they are AAR but type B with leaf springs and roller bearings  as opposed to the type A with babbitt brass oil bath  bearings on L&N 490. Trying to figure just what geep this is. it has a full skirt without access holes and a chop nose which makes me think it is an aftermarket chop. ???   Would be nice if you could stop by and take a look at it's builders plate.  Early GP-18 ? Some had chop noses.              j

Unless one knows the original owner of the unit, there's really no way of telling who reworked the unit.

However, there are still some spotting features left: The vents on the battery box indicate a GP7 (a close up of the builders plate would verify that,) the hand rail stanchions also indicate a GP7, they were changed from solid bar stock to a stamped steel late in GP7 production and finally the 36" cooling fans.  Late in GP9 production and before the GP18, they were changed to 48" fans.

Concerning the chop nose, very likely done by a railroad's shop.  I believe EMD had a low nose "kit" available, but it had a slight slope on it like the GP20.

As for the Type B trucks, also most likely done by a railroad or rebuilder's shop, but it's not a "drop on" conversion.  Some changes need to be made to the bearing plate.  GP7 production ran from 1949-1954.  I don't recall reading about any GP7's coming from the EMD factory using trade-in Alco trucks.

Rusty

JohnActon posted:

CBS072 posted:

This has lived the last few years in Dodge City, Kansas.   It maybe ex Army or L&N????

Wish we knew its ownership history.  Is that a EMD nose chop or aftermarket ?  The trucks are not the usual Blomberg, again they are AAR but type B with leaf springs and roller bearings  as opposed to the type A with babbitt brass oil bath  bearings on L&N 490. Trying to figure just what geep this is. it has a full skirt without access holes and a chop nose which makes me think it is an aftermarket chop. ???   Would be nice if you could stop by and take a look at it's builders plate.  Early GP-18 ? Some had chop noses.              j

Sorry for getting off of the L&N topic,  I will be back in Dodge City in late November and check out the builders plate. Dodge City is only 425 miles west of my home (I use the 500 miles from my home rule when it comes to train shows)

Some interesting web sites on it:

http://rrpicturearchives.net/l...icture.aspx?id=97764

http://www.brian894x4.com/locomotive1810.html

"The 1810 is a GP7u that made 1500 h.p. and was built in August, 1951 for the U.S. Army as their 1821.  Serial No. 15691,
frame No. 7012-1.  It later went to the Alaska Railroad who converted it to a low hood model.  It also served a few years on
the McCloud RiverRR.  In 1993 it was used for the filming of "Under Siege 2 - Dark Territory".   In 1999, Mr.  Samuels
purchased it for use on the Molalla (now Liberal) Division.  However, it was never used there as the crew preferred the
switcher engines as they were easier to see out of with their shorter hoods.

Mr. Samuels said that when they got the locomotive, the fake brains from the movie were still inside the cab and had to be
cleaned out.  The 1810 made its last major run on the East Portland Branch during the June 2007, Summer event with the
SP&S 700.   It was later sold and no longer serves on the OPR."

(More Information follows that snippet)

Scratchbuilder1-48 posted:

JohnActon posted:

Trolling The WWW for L&N  Alco  RS-3's paint schemes I ran across this L&N GP-7 wearing an unusual paint scheme as well as unusual trucks, AAR type A switcher trucks instead of the usual EMD Blomberg B four wheel trucks. With a little more digging I found a descriptive paragraph (below) on the loco. Anyone have a spare Lionel  NW-2 or Alco FA, loco trucks and motor ?       The photos are by Ron Flanary.     j

L&N GP7 no. 490 was one of the first such units built by EMD, with a build date of January 1950. It was the "class" unit of a six-engine order for the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis, which merged into the L&N in 1957. The L&N renumbered this one (NC&StL 700) to 1700, and (in 1965) to 490. The units all came with AAR switcher trucks and (amazingly), friction bearings. It's shown here on an L&N to Pennsy transfer run, still wearing its NC&StL red and gold paint scheme. It was a rare find, even in 1966.

The red hue of the color photo I first posted was bugging me so I did a little correction on it I think the colors are more accurate now.  j

Rusty Traque posted:

As for the Type B trucks, also most likely done by a railroad or rebuilder's shop, but it's not a "drop on" conversion.  Some changes need to be made to the bearing plate.  GP7 production ran from 1949-1954. 

 

"I don't recall reading about any GP7's coming from the EMD factory using trade-in Alco trucks."

Rusty

Rusty, your statement about using trade-in Alco trucks made me curious, as most GM switchers use the AAR trucks.     So here we go.

FROM WIKIPEDIA;

"The AAR type A switcher truck is a diesel locomotive truck introduced by EMD and installed as standard equipment on most EMD switcher locomotives and on those of other manufacturers. It was designed by Martin P Blomberg and its US Patent was filed on Jul 6, 1937, and approved Nov 15, 1938 under U.S. Patent 2,137,074. It was designed for switcher service where the more complex high-speed passenger locomotive trucks were not needed. The truck uses drop equalizers but does not have swing hangers as used on the Blomberg B and others. A combination of coil springs, and leaf springs, positioned fore-and-aft inside the drop equalizers, give a good balance of damping. The wheelbase is 8 ft 0 in (2,438 mm).  "

Note the roller bearings on this modern type A vs the Babbitt oil bath bearings on the L&N geep. 

Here is a link to an article on Mr Blomberg who designed most if not all EMD locomotive trucks.   j

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_P._Blomberg

Getting back to the ex-NC&StL unit, I've always wondered why the railroad specified the switcher trucks.  

By doing so, some things were sacrificed.  These trucks do not track well at mainline speeds.  There must have been method in the madness.

The only advantage I can think of is reducing the weight of the locomotive.  Did these six NC&StL GP7's also have other weight saving features, such as small fuel tanks?  Were they purchased for a particular branch line with bad track and bridges that could not support the weight of a standard GP7?

If there is an NC&StL modeler in the crowd, we would be most grateful to know why this locomotive was specially equipped.

Number 90 posted:

Getting back to the ex-NC&StL unit, I've always wondered why the railroad specified the switcher trucks.  

By doing so, some things were sacrificed.  These trucks do not track well at mainline speeds.  They have 36" wheels and smaller traction motors than the standard Blomberg B truck.  There must have been method in the madness.

The only advantage I can think of is reducing the weight of the locomotive.  Did these six NC&StL GP7's also have other weight saving features, such as small fuel tanks?  Were they purchased for a particular branch line with bridges that could not support the weight of a standard GP7?

If there is an NC&StL modeler in the crowd, we would be most grateful to know why this locomotive was specially equipped.

AAR trucks, as well as the Alco "Blunt" and Baldwin "Batz" trucks ride on 40" wheels, not 36" wheels.  The only mainline diesel truck which rode on 36" wheels is the EMD Blomberg A1A passenger truck under the E units.

Stuart

Ya caught me, Stuart.  Thanks.  I corrected my post.  Issued myself a reprimand.

I'd still like to know what the NC&StL's reasoning was for specifying those trucks.  One would think EMD would have tried to talk them out of it if the engine was not specially equipped for a reason.