Any other Texas and Pacific fans out there?

Hello Griff. I took a shot at making my own T&P ten wheeler. Haven't found any supplied by vendors. This one started life as Williams #40608. Have installed ERR command. Not a lot of room inside for all the electronics. But it does run nice.

I think it looks very good, better than my effort at converting an MTH railking one. I like your ballast on the track as well. Is the tender the one that came with the Williams? Obviously the oil bunker is an add on! Nice work. 

Here is a photo of a later D-9 in 1939 at Shreveport with “...W.A. Pickering in the cab on passenger train 27 coming out of the yard.” I apologize for the effects of light it is on a board with riveted-on Plexiglass, likely framed in the car shop. Given to me by AJ Bailiff’s daughter. I’m not going to un-Rivet it to get a better picture. Here are two tries:

That is the tender that came with the engine. I cut out the plastic coal pile and installed a piece of plastic, added some rivets and a washer for a fill cap, and then painted it black.

I was assigned to Sweetwater, Texas, as a Santa Fe official, for 11 years.  Sweetwater was on Santa Fe's Coleman Cutoff, as well as on T&P's main line between Fort Worth and El Paso.

By the time I arrived there (1993) the T&P had been merged into Missouri Pacific and then again into Union Pacific.  However, the right of way had changed little since T&P days.  Many of the old head Santa Fe employees at Sweetwater had traveled, in prior decades, to Fort Worth or Dallas by T&P passenger trains, and spoke highly of the railroad.  They said that the equipment was not as fancy as Santa Fe's, but the track was very good and the trains were comfortable.

In the era that I experienced it, track speed was down to a maximum speed of 50 MPH on 1948 115 lb. jointed rail and was not very smooth riding.  Some parts were still good for 60 MPH, but also rode rough.  We started running our Los Angeles-Fort Worth trains over the ex-T&P from Tecific to Tower 55.  The Dispatchers -- who had become accustomed to dispatching just one long freight drag in each direction daily -- suddenly had three hot Santa Fe's each way daily, and were apparently not pleased at having to actually figure out meeting points.  Generally they were cross and disagreeable with our crews.

Since the merger, BNSF now runs most of that LA-Fort Worth traffic eastward to Amarillo on the ex-Santa Fe and then on to Fort worth over the ex-Fort Worth & Denver.  The ex-T&P has inherited some hot trains that used to go via SP through San Antonio, and has been upgraded with heavy welded rail to allow 70 MPH running.

Interesting info, I would have thought 115 lb rail would be too light for those 600 class 2-10-4s. I used to stand on a little footbridge on the north side of Lancaster yard and watch and photograph trains. I have some 8mm old fashioned films if I can ever find them, from the buzz saw era.

johnstrains posted:

Not really a fan but a Lionel Texas & Pacific starter set is partly responsible for getting me back in the hobby. Think it was around 2000 and one of my kids heard me talking about having trains when I was younger. They got me a T&P Eagle Railsounds set for Christmas and it basically rekindled my interest in O gauge.

Still have it packed away. Basically a like-new set as I only ran it a few times.

 I always wanted that set! I thought it was beautiful. I actually like T&P because of it. Never had it though. Must’ve stared at that page of the catalog for hours. Now I’m a little envious.

Griff Murphey posted:

Interesting info, I would have thought 115 lb rail would be too light for those 600 class 2-10-4s. 

Not in the least.  Maybe it was 116 or 119 lb. rail, but the difference is negligible.  It all had 1940's dates, so it was 50 years old at the time I came to Sweetwater.  The T&P traffic levels were not huge, and so the rail, though showing a little bit of wear, was still in use.  The tie renewal and resurfacing had declined in the Missouri Pacific years, which is what accounted for the rough ride.  The MOP was a no-frills outfit, but not necessarily the T&P when it was operating independently.

Rail weight is primarily chosen by the amount of tonnage that will run over it.  In other words, how many trains a day, or, more precisely annual tonnage.  The heavier it is, the longer it should last.  Rail is a long-term investment.  

Any large locomotive should be able to operate on well maintained track laid with 115 lb. rail.

This is one of the cars on my roster, so I guess I'm a T&P fan.

Number 90 posted:

 

Since the merger, BNSF now runs most of that LA-Fort Worth traffic eastward to Amarillo on the ex-Santa Fe and then on to Fort worth over the ex-Fort Worth & Denver.  The ex-T&P has inherited some hot trains that used to go via SP through San Antonio, and has been upgraded with heavy welded rail to allow 70 MPH running.

Yep.  While driving on former US highway 80 east of Pecos, TX alongside Uncle Pete  I paced a double stack doing 70mph.  I never experienced speed like that from the headend...it must be exciting.  

My Lionel Junior Mikado with some detail changes and paint work...

Tom

I might suggest adding a Tuscan red cab roof. Tender conversion to oil is a pain. Those are nice engines and I had one until I obtained the 557 which is also inaccurate. 

Hello Griff,

Did the T&P stop using the gray-green before the MP merger?

Thanks for the pointers. I only had black and white photos to work from. 

I moved the bell to the smoke box front and replaced the front “nub” with a scale coupler. It is still a work in progress. Interesting about the oil tender. That would be an interesting project to convert that...

Tom

OK, define "merger".  When did the MP buy the T&P, when did MP began to "control" T&P operations, and official merger?  

Junkman;  as the T&P had completed dieselization by 1951, that was long before the MP takeover which began in the 60’s, long after any steam save “the Moccasin.”

I had to go to Wikipedia but the official merger was Oct. 15, 1976. The T&P’s iconic diamond began to be replaced with the MP buzz saw herald, with Texas & Pacific wording, in the i960’s but I don’t know the exact date.

The MP removed as much TP signage as they could even jackhammering off the TP diamond on the Marshall, Texas depot. The original little TP diamonds were long ago pried off of the doors on the big hq building/depot it Ft. Worth. The depot was tarted up by the transportation authority for commuter rail service and loft apartments and the little diamonds were replaced but have again all been pried off as souvenirs. There were a few TP signs remaining on some bridges until about ten years ago but I think they are all gone now.

Tom Stamey could probably tell more about the takeover of TP and how it progressed over the years. My high school girlfriend married an MP guy and she became yardmaster of the Centennial later Davidson yard but I have lost touch with them. I have another guy I could call - will get back to y’all.

Griff,

My main concern about gray-green color that I already posted is that I have a large number of T&P steam engines of various wheel arrangement. If they should all have gray-green boilers and steam chests, then I have a lot of work to do. I think the color I showed in an earlier post may be close, but maybe it should be a little more green. The just released 3rd rail 2-10-4 engine looks more like Northern Pacific green. What do you think? No one else on the forum has commented on the T&P gray green color from personal recollections.

Well... you are pinning me to the wall and I am just a modeler like yourself. To a certain extent this is like verifying the colors on Cleopatra’s barge. There are color photos showing even a bluish gray similar to my MTH Erie Triplex, under weathering conditions. The 610 here in Fort Worth on show by our collesium had its boiler painted a light gray... by the city or T&P? Nobody knows... The educated guess of most of the guys who model HO and O T&P is that “Light Russian” was something like GN gray green but after weathering got a bit bluish and lighter gray due to whatever heat resistant stuff they put in it.  Iron oxide or something? All I can say is the GN gray green seems to be a safe starter color. I had a T&P painter as a patient ~35 years ago and I can only wish I had questioned him more closely. He did paint me a T&P diamond sandwiched and riveted between two sheets of plexiglass.

I remember the TEXAS EAGLE stopped at New Braunfels, TX. Late 1960's.  Tran in Jenks Blue.  All cars had buzzsaw logos.   Some had TP in the logo....