Anyone Ever Make the Switch to Command...and Then Go Back to Conventional??

NEVER!

TEX

Steve

In the famous words of James Bond, "You must be joking!"

I did.   I installed DCS and later took it out.   I just don't care for the other features it offered(sounds, announcements,coupler sounds, etc.).  I'm not saying it's not great, just not for me.   Got rid of the MTH engines and went conventional (postwar and conventional classics)

Mike,

Once you experience the benefits of slow speed controlled switching, coupler control, sounds, multiple units (or LASHUPS  as some heretics call them ), and the ability to run multiple trains easily, I don't think you'll go back either.  I certainly won't.  And don't forget, typically going to command requires a less complex wiring scheme than say block control.  

Now, I will say that I've abandoned DCS (too many technical glitches) in favor of TMCC and never looked back.

George

Mike,

  I'm in pretty much the same situation a small layout and almost all of my locomotives are postwar. I stopped at Mercer Junction last fall on a detoured route home from a meeting and Dave put the remotes for both Legacy and DCS in my hands and gave me a quick lesson  and I was ready to switch.  But I keep holding off spending the money for what I figure would be limited benefits, plus I keep getting more and more confused by what I need to buy for TMCC, Legacy or DCS.  But Saturday at the Lionel Open house watching the layouts all run by remote had me thinking again.

Kevin

Mike

I started in conventional and then moved to TMCC when it came out then took out the control panel. Then added for all block and switches controlled by American Train electronics. Then added Legacy and DCS (L Rev). Ran that for awhile and when the prices for all the newer engines got above what I can afford I tried a Williams engine in the conventional mode and really enjoyed that mode of operations and can afford that price point engine. So out comes the DCS and all the electronics blocks and switches and installed a nice control panel again and put in a MTH Z4000 and run everything in the conventional mode now. The Legacy is connected to two TPC 3000 and two 180 Brick but never turn them much but, by throwing two toggle switches one for each main line I can go back and forth between the two setups. I am always grabbing for those handles on that Z4000. It seems to me I have control of my engines with those handles and I really do not care now about all those buttons and whistles with command control just a simple horn and bell and a nice Williams engine that works every time I raise up on the handles. Just my way of running my trains that I love to do each day.

I would suggest that Command Control makes a small layout even more fun. Count me among those who will not likely return. In 5 x 16 feet I can run 5 trains plus an industrial switcher at the same time, all with realistic sounds and speeds.

YES......I bought a Bachmann DCC system to use on my On30 trains....and after trying to remember all the numbers, programing etc....it was not worth it to me. I was a Analyst for 30 years....don't need trains harder to run than a top five bank was!  Conventional all the way.....a few more DCU board failures and I'll be running DC w/o boards!

Sort of.  I'm known as a big conventional advocate, but I actually took a long, hard look last year.  I was loaned an MTH system to use for a while and even bought my own controller and such which I used with several PS2 and one PS3 loco.  Very likely proponents would say I didn't fully utilize all the features - playing with the details of sound, etc., is just not my thing.  The locos went a bit slower than I could get then to run in conventional, and I could control speed a lot more precisely, and make then accelerate from a stop very gradually, but ultimately, I returned the loaned equipment and gave away the stuff I'd bought: a train running on my layout is a train running on my layout and its hard to beat the simplicity of just using a throttle lever to do that.  I use a ZW-L but only conventionally now.  Someday I might experiment in a similar way with Legacy, but not anytime soon.

Yep. Started with conventional, installed TMCC and bought a bunch of TMCC engines, and am now back to conventional.

This coincided with my hiatus from trains. When I returned, I decided to place an emphasis on a tinplate, toy-train-like layout and also incorporated some Post War and Conventional Classics.

Don’t miss command at all and really enjoy running my trains via vintage Lionel transformers.

I have been into command since the beginning, 1995 for Tmmc and 2000 for dcs. I also have a fairly small layout but I will only run command. Nothing like it especially legacy. 

Hi Mike:

The old expression about "once you have seen Paris" applies in my world. I would recommend that you take the plunge with either the Lionel or MTH systems.

Nope, we just made it possible to run conventional using TMCC/Legacy and DCS. That way we can run it all.

I used to say I would not buy anything without command control (TMCC) but I've found myself buying occasional Lionel conventional classics and more than a few Williams postwar repro F3s nonetheless, so I guess I'm leaning  bit towards towards conventional without abandoning command.  I think I'm more likely to buy a ZW-L than Legacy next, so that sounds a bit retro .

I agree with Passenger Train Collector: take the plunge.  I would recommend the new CAB-1L as a compromise between ease of setup, cost and operability, but an old TMCC command system would work and should be cheaper.  Legacy and DCS are more feature packed but are bigger investments.  I highly recommend your first command engine has cruise control (early TMCC and some Atlas engines do not have cruise control).  Cruise really increased my enjoyment of command control.  And as some have mentioned, you can still run conventional.

Ron

Mike I have a fairly small layout and use both TMCC and DCS.  Yes there are lots of options, all good IMHO, but you don't have to use all of them.  I keep it simple and have created "scenes" so that one selection on the remote has all of the trains running at the same time, this lets me talk to friends and explain what's going on while the trains run.  Also gives me the opportunity to let my grandchildren press the bell and whistle buttons on the remote without worrying about the trains.  Conventional operation is also an option, I rarely use it though.

I run Legacy and DCS. I have it set up to run conventional also. It gets rarer and rarer that this happens.

To each his own for sure but command is what got me really back into the hobby in a big way. It was a real game changer for me.

All of my steam is Postwar and I enjoy running in conventional.  I set up a passenger train with the 773 pulling on the outside rails and then run freight runs and deliveries of coal, lumber, milk and cattle on the service and inside main using the wonderful 1656 switcher and the various Postwar accessories.  Conventional can be tricky but it offers me the closest simulation to running a real railroad.

TMCC is my command system.  I have two beautiful passenger trains - the Lionel Santa Fe #19 and the K-Line Reading #264.  I set-up a freight consist with the UP Legacy SD70ACe and drive the three units through their paces.  Switching, with timing, over two mains and an inside service line.  It is an amazing world when the Railsounds "City of Denver" pulls in to the station and announces it's arrival.  The UP Legacy is an incredible work horse and pulls significant freight.  The Reading is a sight to behold.

So I enjoy both worlds.  However, I know the Postwar engines and accessories will still be running and working when my Grandchildren divide up the booty in the not to distant future.  There is room on my layout for both and being the operator that I am, I really enjoy switching back and forth.

Bill this is the thing about command that intrigues me the most...the ability to run multiple trains on the same loop.  With 8 x 12 conventional running, I run 4 trains at once, each on its own separate loop.  But when i see a train at the far end of the 12 foot straightaway section, I do think, "boy it would be nice to have a  5-car freight set and engine coming down THIS side of the table."  I have to admit, that is very tempting right there!!  

I've got DCS and the TMCC command base hooked up and enjoy operating the trains under command control.  I have 10 engines, 4 PS2, 3 TMCC/ERR, and 3 CONV.

If the engines ever start giving me problems that I can't fix I'll probably gut them and go straight DC (just leave the DC motor in place and use a DC power pack, which I have done and know works) or go RC with batteries.

I truly enjoy the slow speed I get with DCS though, something that I have yet to achieve under conventional or DC power.  Even my conventional engines (MTH Railking RS3 with Locosounds, Weaver 4-6-0 with QSI, and Williams/Samhongsa USRA 2-8-2 with QSI) run better under CC than they do using my Z750.I like a hands-on approach to running my 12x12 layout with a 2x14 foot extension down one side, so all I have is 2 wires going to the track and no toggle switches or turnouts wired in place.  You can make it as easy or as complicated as you want.

Mike, a bunch of guys from the Maryland O-Gaugers are coming over Saturday. I'll get some video of the multiple trains on a loop and post on "Weekend at the Movies."  It is really fun alone, too. Last night I had 4 trains going on two loops, with two trains on each controller. Didn't leave me a hand for pictures, though!

How could TMCC be a "headache", as someone commented above? It's so friendly

that you can practically have CC by accident.

I never, ever - since childhood, anyway - had much patience for the "F-N-R" sequencing of conventional (analog) AC trains.

It's tedious and is way too "train-set" for a $900 locomotive.

The moment that I first ran a TMCC loco (a Warhorse J 4-6-4 - not a particularly good loco, actually) I never looked back. For the first time I felt that I was driving the train and not the track.

I have the DCS Remote Commander and numerous PS2 and PS3 locos, and I used it for

a while...but the MTH locos have migrated back to the shelf, mostly. It's just not as

reliable as TMCC; some locos are fine, some won't run under it ("Factory Reset" or not), and that gets old. I'm not in the market for much, but I now generally pass on the MTH locos - unless it's a nice, bargain PS1 that I can update to TMCC.

But any CC is better than "F-N-R". Straight, polarity-dependent DC operation is the only

analog ("conventional") system that would appeal to me.

An interesting topic. Personally, I do not want the added expense and complication of electronic systems that are likely to become obsolete within a generation. Besides, my O-gauge interests tend towards repairing mostly Postwar-era equipment, and keeping it in original condition. I do some electronics work, I'm not intimidated by modern electronics, but I just don't want the added complexity with my mostly vintage trains.

I have a couple MTH PS-1 locos and I'm not that excited about the electronic sound effects. They get routine. O-gauge trains are big and heavy enough to make their own interesting sound effects with solid metal wheels on steel rails (no plastic roadbeds for me).

I wonder how many people have had serious collisions with their command control trains? Of course, you can safeguard against that with even more electronic complexities.

I do a limited amount of multi-train operation with the trains on separate mains, or spaced out on my 80-foot circuits of track.

I'm not a fan of the anachronistic "F-N-R"  E-units. I simply lock them in forward most of the time; that suits the kind of operation I do. I've put center-off manual reversing switches on some of my locos instead of repairing the old E-units.

Only way I'll ever give up either TMCC, Legacy or DCS is when someone finally prys my hand helds from my cold, stiff and dead fingers!

Paul Fischer

you know i look at the TMCC dcs stuf and think its neet, however i hate the concept of remote control, look at the skill sets that are being lost in our generation for layout design and construction! no more figuring out electrical blocks for running multiple trains, if there was ever an EMP yalls trains just became fishing weights, my old postwars will keep on running. theres an art to the old school ways and for me just because technology is making incredible leaps forward doesnt make it right to go willynilly and apply it to ever ****ed thing in our lives!!!  in my opinion (for what it is or isnt worth) TMCC and DCS make us mentally and physically lazy

In my S Scale world, it's DCC. 

I have my layout set up to run either DCC or conventional DC at the flip of a few toggles. 

When I buy a new locomotive, if it's available with command (Legacy/DCC for new Flyer, DCS/DCC for MTH S or regular DCC for anyone else) I'll opt for command.  But it's not a show stopper if the loco doesn't have command control of some sort.

I find myself running the conventinal DC stuff the most and I'm not about to convert all my DC locomotives.

Rusty

After reading the last few comments, I started thinking about what features I could not do without, they are:

Slow speed control for switching cars

Constant brightness/directional control of lights

One push direction controlAll other features are fluff.

That would be like trading in my galaxy S3 smart phone for this!

i think i would rather have this, i dont even own a cell phone

Why not go back all the way:  Morse code!

I use TMCC in Conv., and LOVE it.  If I do get a TMCC/L engine, the only thing I need to go is to move a switch on the PowerHouses/Masters!

also fine by me

I hooked up a DCS system to my layout 3 or 4 months ago and more recently connected a TMCC Command base to it so I can run my MTH stuff as well as TMCC Lionel. I like the DCS alot, but......I didn't like the way my Postwar stuff ran under DCS control. The e-units didn't work the same, nor sound the same, my PW whistles became problematic and cars that had solenoids (like the searchlight car) didn't run well either. So, I put 2 toggle switches in that would enable me to bypass the TIU when I run PW. I went backward in a sense (only for PW) but that stuff runs better under ZW control and my modern stuff runs better under DCS control. Best of both worlds, I guess.

Bravo!

While I do have a Cell used while I travel....it's a 2005 era Razor that remains turned off 99% of the time. Accuse me of being a tin foil hat wearer but I don't like the 400 page 'agreement' you sign when getting a modern phone.  The data these companies collect and SELL about you keeps me away.

just like my trains........they all run in dumb mode just fine......

Nah, Morse is still too modern.  Go with smoke signals. 

You still have to renew your agreements, and they tend to get appended over time.  Calling plans change, and some things can't always be grandfathered anymore.

Just something to consider.

Adcually, did not Adminial H, Nelson used FLAGS to tell everybody to do their duty?

Mike, I found this clip I took some time ago, of son and grandson each running two trains from one controller. Son (bigger guy) has the Legacy remote and is running a PRR RS-11 and UP SD40-T-2 on the inner loop. Grandson (smaller guy) has a Cab-1 and is running CSX and UP  on the outer loop. Now, they are running faster than I usually do, but you know how kids are. They had no wrecks. The "sorry" at the end is not a wreck, but a mis-placed finger hitting the panic button on the cab-1. Of course, that brought everything to a stop.

Never would go back to conventional, the mere fact that it can give you a different view of your trains is worth it, not to mention remote control of switches. Walk around your layout and 'see' what the train can see. There's more to it than that, possibilities are abundant.