Anyone run the new Lionel H-10 with a conventional transfomer?

Robert N posted:

Received my H-10 today. Gorgeous engine! I run my whole layout with a Z4000. All my engines up to now have been MTH. They all run flawlessly. My new H-10 starts up fine. Sounds are good. But when you cycle in to forward it cuts off. If you start it up and cycle in the forward with a quick jab of the direction button it will cycle in to forward but the sound stills drops out for a second. Sounds like an older MTH with PS1. Is that just the nature of running this engine conventionally? Also, I love the sound of the whistle but I cant get it to smoke. I put some smoke fluid in it, still nothing. I get smoke from the stack, although not a whole lot. Anybody else run conventional? Thanks.

Robert

Hey Robert,

If using any Legacy engine in conventional mode you will requires a 9V battery to be installed in the tender so that when power is interrupted, the sound will continue to work.

GRJ will also recomend his LAST BATTERY EVER which I also recommend as to avoid a battery spill in the tender.

Let me know if you need a hand finding how to install the battery.

As per the poor smoke, that't usually a flaw of conventional control, when the voltage to the track is low, the smoke units don't smoke as well, I am almost sure this is your issue. You can test my theory be ramping the voltage to 18 when the engine is in Neutral, if you get better smoke output then you know that's your issue. If I am wrong, I am sure others will chime in. I don't run conventional but have read other threads with similar issues.

Hope this helps, Thanks!

Daniel J. Gonzalez posted:

Robert N posted:

Received my H-10 today. Gorgeous engine! I run my whole layout with a Z4000. All my engines up to now have been MTH. They all run flawlessly. My new H-10 starts up fine. Sounds are good. But when you cycle in to forward it cuts off. If you start it up and cycle in the forward with a quick jab of the direction button it will cycle in to forward but the sound stills drops out for a second. Sounds like an older MTH with PS1. Is that just the nature of running this engine conventionally? Also, I love the sound of the whistle but I cant get it to smoke. I put some smoke fluid in it, still nothing. I get smoke from the stack, although not a whole lot. Anybody else run conventional? Thanks.

Robert

Hey Robert,

If using any Legacy engine in conventional mode you will requires a 9V battery to be installed in the tender so that when power is interrupted, the sound will continue to work.

GRJ will also recomend his LAST BATTERY EVER which I also recommend as to avoid a battery spill in the tender.

Let me know if you need a hand finding how to install the battery.

As per the poor smoke, that't usually a flaw of conventional control, when the voltage to the track is low, the smoke units don't smoke as well, I am almost sure this is your issue. You can test my theory be ramping the voltage to 18 when the engine is in Neutral, if you get better smoke output then you know that's your issue. If I am wrong, I am sure others will chime in. I don't run conventional but have read other threads with similar issues.

Hope this helps, Thanks!

Yeh I thought maybe there might be a battery but couldn't find anything about it in the manual.

I ramped it up to 18V but still couldn't get smoke out of the whistle. Maybe a few more drops of fluid. Thanks

Robert N posted:

Daniel J. Gonzalez posted:

Robert N posted:

Received my H-10 today. Gorgeous engine! I run my whole layout with a Z4000. All my engines up to now have been MTH. They all run flawlessly. My new H-10 starts up fine. Sounds are good. But when you cycle in to forward it cuts off. If you start it up and cycle in the forward with a quick jab of the direction button it will cycle in to forward but the sound stills drops out for a second. Sounds like an older MTH with PS1. Is that just the nature of running this engine conventionally? Also, I love the sound of the whistle but I cant get it to smoke. I put some smoke fluid in it, still nothing. I get smoke from the stack, although not a whole lot. Anybody else run conventional? Thanks.

Robert

Hey Robert,

If using any Legacy engine in conventional mode you will requires a 9V battery to be installed in the tender so that when power is interrupted, the sound will continue to work.

GRJ will also recomend his LAST BATTERY EVER which I also recommend as to avoid a battery spill in the tender.

Let me know if you need a hand finding how to install the battery.

As per the poor smoke, that't usually a flaw of conventional control, when the voltage to the track is low, the smoke units don't smoke as well, I am almost sure this is your issue. You can test my theory be ramping the voltage to 18 when the engine is in Neutral, if you get better smoke output then you know that's your issue. If I am wrong, I am sure others will chime in. I don't run conventional but have read other threads with similar issues.

Hope this helps, Thanks!

Yeh I thought maybe there might be a battery but couldn't find anything about it in the manual.

I ramped it up to 18V but still couldn't get smoke out of the whistle. Maybe a few more drops of fluid. Thanks

Be careful with adding fluid to the whistle steam unit. I have a funny feeling it's small and another member already flooded his, proceed with caution.

All legacy engines usually come with the battery terminal BUT some have reported that their engine came without the battery connector and as a result had to purchase the part from Lionel before they were able to install the battery in the tender.

Again this has been discussed before but I'm driving now so I can't reference that thread, when I get home I will look for it for you so that you have a bit more information on how to do it and what is needed.

This is the Lionel part you need if the battery cable isn't there.

Of course, I always recommend pairing it with this unit so you never have to open the tender again.

I also have a question about this new locomotive. Has anyone tried running this with Lionel Bluetooth.

What are the pros & cons.  Can the swinging bell be controlled with the bell button?

Gary

Well, I just got mine, and of course I wanted to see it run with BT as it's my first BT locomotive. The swinging bell goes with the bell sound, so yes.

In my case, standing five feet from the locomotive, when I do certainly operations, the BT disconnects, so IMO the application or the implementation is not ready for prime time.

It worked fine with the LC Universal remote, so I tend to believe it's the BT Android application.

Here is my deal. My layout is mostly MTH DCS & Wi-Fi. 

I do not have Lionel Legacy, my LHS is big time into MTH DCS & Wi-Fi. I have a large layout and I have never had an issue with Lionel Bluetooth or LionChief Plus.

John, with your description of the range issue with the BT, may keep me away.

Gary

I have run mine with Legacy, Universal Remote and Bluetooth using an old iPad Air.  UR and BT both worked flawlessly with no disconnects whatsoever,  walked around my entire basement, into other rooms, no issues.

Gary

I don't think it's a range issue Gary, the BT for the LC Universal Remote had no problem 30 feet away.  It's bugs in the LC Android Application, don't know about the Apple version.  The locomotive just disconnected from the remote with no reason.

OK John & Gary: Thanks for the tips. I will have to do some more homework. Not having Legacy, I have no back up plan.

I wonder if there are any features that will not work with Lionel Bluetooth. I have watched several YT videos on this Lionel H-10.  The whistle & swingbell is very well done.

Gary 

The steaming whistle and swinging bell work fine with BT when BT is working.  That's really the wildcard.  I'm currently downloading the LC app on my iPad, I'll see if it's better on the Apple side.

I am on the Apple side of things. iPhone 7 Plus and a sidebar note, my MTH DCS Wi-Fi works great. My LHS keeps me up and running, because they want to sell me more stuff. 

What makes the swinging bell swing?

Gary

There's a magnet under the boiler shell that swings the bell.

This is the one from the CC2s, I'm presuming that Lionel did pretty much the same thing for this one.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

There's a magnet under the boiler shell that swings the bell.

This is the one from the CC2s, I'm presuming that Lionel did pretty much the same thing for this one.

Wonder if you could add this to other engines that don't have it. 

Gary,

if you haven’t already seen Sean’s video (member Sandjam) he does a good job covering the app and the new H10.

https://youtu.be/6DrbjkzE-CE

The easy part is adding the magnet and the bell assembly, the hard part is synchronizing it with the bell sound, you don't have access to any digital signal to tell you when to swing the bell.

Well, the iPad seems to work better, I didn't get the disconnects I do with the Android application.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The easy part is adding the magnet and the bell assembly, the hard part is synchronizing it with the bell sound, you don't have access to any digital signal to tell you when to swing the bell.

True.

MrMoe50 posted:

Gary,

if you haven’t already seen Sean’s video (member Sandjam) he does a good job covering the app and the new H10.

https://youtu.be/6DrbjkzE-CE

 

I just watched Sean's video.  I missed this one, he does go into the Bluetooth in a lot detail. He is using an iPad. He had some minor issues but the big picture looks great for Bluetooth.

Gary

I tried for years to get Legacy locos to smoke in conventual mode. Oh it works on a new loco at first because you are essentially priming the smoke unit. But when the smoke starts to diminish and you add more fluid you eventually get to the point where you are flooding nearby circuit boards and you get start getting blinking cab lights meaning problem  with the smoke unit. Mike Reagan said that it takes at least 15 volts on the track to get a Legacy loco to smoke satisfactory. This is unlike MTH locos  which smoke fine in conventual. My new Lionel H9/10 smokes fine with 18 volts on the track and being controlled by a cheap Android ($70) cell phone with the blue tooth app.  

gunrunnerjohn posted:

This is the Lionel part you need if the battery cable isn't there.

Of course, I always recommend pairing it with this unit so you never have to open the tender again.

Thanks!

For whatever reason, my Android phone continually disconnects in BT mode from the H10.  I'm pretty sure it's not the locomotive as the iPad or the LC Universal Remote also use BT and work just fine with no issues.

I use the BT all the time on my Android phone for other uses, it's the Samsung Galaxy S8+, no issues of any kind.  That kinda' leads me to the conclusion that the Android LC application has the problem, it's the only piece that isn't in the other pictures.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

For whatever reason, my Android phone continually disconnects in BT mode from the H10.  I'm pretty sure it's not the locomotive as the iPad or the LC Universal Remote also use BT and work just fine with no issues.

I use the BT all the time on my Android phone for other uses, it's the Samsung Galaxy S8+, no issues of any kind.  That kinda' leads me to the conclusion that the Android LC application has the problem, it's the only piece that isn't in the other pictures.

I have three blue tooth lionel engine,  they all run significantly better using an i phone versus the Android.  I have the same Samsung phone as you.  Hopefully Lionel will be able to work the bugs out. Dont know if some phones work better than others.  

OK, whats the cheapest way I could run this engine with Legacy control? Whats the minimum hardware I will need?

ns1001 posted:

I tried for years to get Legacy locos to smoke in conventual mode. Oh it works on a new loco at first because you are essentially priming the smoke unit. But when the smoke starts to diminish and you add more fluid you eventually get to the point where you are flooding nearby circuit boards and you get start getting blinking cab lights meaning problem  with the smoke unit. Mike Reagan said that it takes at least 15 volts on the track to get a Legacy loco to smoke satisfactory. This is unlike MTH locos  which smoke fine in conventual. My new Lionel H9/10 smokes fine with 18 volts on the track and being controlled by a cheap Android ($70) cell phone with the blue tooth app.  

My new E6 Atlantic (just released) won’t even run in Conventional when the smoke unit is turned on. It just sits there in neutral.

An added twist, my dealer said she could get it to run and smoke using a postwar transformer but not a new generation Lionel one. I use the CW180 of recent vintage since I thought newer locos would run better with that than with my old Postwar TW . Strange how things work out...

She  is talking to Lionel about a possible fix, possibly installing a new control board of some sort. From what I gather, this problem is endemic to these locos. So I hope they can find the problem and repair it. 

In the meantime,I wait. 

Lionel might be better off if they just told folks that Legacy products would not run in Conventional. 

Dave Warburton posted:

ns1001 posted:

I tried for years to get Legacy locos to smoke in conventual mode. Oh it works on a new loco at first because you are essentially priming the smoke unit. But when the smoke starts to diminish and you add more fluid you eventually get to the point where you are flooding nearby circuit boards and you get start getting blinking cab lights meaning problem  with the smoke unit. Mike Reagan said that it takes at least 15 volts on the track to get a Legacy loco to smoke satisfactory. This is unlike MTH locos  which smoke fine in conventual. My new Lionel H9/10 smokes fine with 18 volts on the track and being controlled by a cheap Android ($70) cell phone with the blue tooth app.  

My new E6 Atlantic (just released) won’t even run in Conventional when the smoke unit is turned on. It just sits there in neutral.

An added twist, my dealer said she could get it to run and smoke using a postwar transformer but not a new generation Lionel one. I use the CW180 of recent vintage since I thought newer locos would run better with that than with my old Postwar TW . Strange how things work out...

She  is talking to Lionel about a possible fix, possibly installing a new control board of some sort. From what I gather, this problem is endemic to these locos. So I hope they can find the problem and repair it. 

In the meantime,I wait. 

Lionel might be better off if they just told folks that Legacy products would not run in Conventional. 

I agree. This engine isn't designed to run in conventional mode. They should not advertise that it does. It does run better with the BT app but then Ill have to get a bigger phone. My eyes aint what they used to be!

For Robert N the cheapest Legacy control system would be a Lionel CW-80 transformer  or similar transformer and a Lionel(Base-1L and a Cab-1L). The two Legacy components sell for about $210 at Trainworld. Be aware that you need to turn the transformer al the way up to 18 volts which will eventually burn out bulbs rated for 12 volts.

Robert N posted:

Dave Warburton posted:

ns1001 posted:

I tried for years to get Legacy locos to smoke in conventual mode. Oh it works on a new loco at first because you are essentially priming the smoke unit. But when the smoke starts to diminish and you add more fluid you eventually get to the point where you are flooding nearby circuit boards and you get start getting blinking cab lights meaning problem  with the smoke unit. Mike Reagan said that it takes at least 15 volts on the track to get a Legacy loco to smoke satisfactory. This is unlike MTH locos  which smoke fine in conventual. My new Lionel H9/10 smokes fine with 18 volts on the track and being controlled by a cheap Android ($70) cell phone with the blue tooth app.  

My new E6 Atlantic (just released) won’t even run in Conventional when the smoke unit is turned on. It just sits there in neutral.

An added twist, my dealer said she could get it to run and smoke using a postwar transformer but not a new generation Lionel one. I use the CW180 of recent vintage since I thought newer locos would run better with that than with my old Postwar TW . Strange how things work out...

She  is talking to Lionel about a possible fix, possibly installing a new control board of some sort. From what I gather, this problem is endemic to these locos. So I hope they can find the problem and repair it. 

In the meantime,I wait. 

Lionel might be better off if they just told folks that Legacy products would not run in Conventional. 

I agree. This engine isn't designed to run in conventional mode. They should not advertise that it does. It does run better with the BT app but then Ill have to get a bigger phone. My eyes aint what they used to be!

With this snafu I have sworn off Legacy items since I only run Conventional. Not worth the aggrevation. I will stick with LionChief + and older systems. Plus, I am paying extra money for features I will not use, too. 

ns1001 posted:

For Robert N the cheapest Legacy control system would be a Lionel CW-80 transformer  or similar transformer and a Lionel(Base-1L and a Cab-1L). The two Legacy components sell for about $210 at Trainworld. Be aware that you need to turn the transformer al the way up to 18 volts which will eventually burn out bulbs rated for 12 volts.

Thanks  I already have a Z4000 tranformer so I guess Ill just needf the base and the cab 1. 

Your problems with the Atlantic have nothing to do with Bluetooth and the H10, may I suggest you start a new thread if you want to discuss those issues?