Anyone running MTH 2-Rail with DCS

I will be using dcs for my new 2 rail layout, just got a price from jason to have proto 2.0 steam kit with smoke unit installed in my 2 rail brass weaver models lackawanna pocono.

I remember seeing a video from michael pitgo (NYSME) running his MTH lackawanna E8's by dcs at the NYSME club layout.

David, there are many that do run DCS two rail even in larger scales.  Our group has a few issues with it, but with a portable wired for DCC, we saw a few issues including devices that automatically switch the polarity on the frog and the DCS signal.   I in fact burned up one of my GEVOS with PS2, now converted to DCC running over a frog powered by a frog juicer.  You may not have the same issue if you use a tortoise or something like that to power the frog since it sets the correct polarity before you run over the rail section. 

 Yeap, I do! No problems running with either DC or Ac power. Took a bit to perfect the signal when my layout grew more complex. I run a lot of diesels in a train. Best system for this that I've owned. I run other brands with their Proto sound boards installed.

 Free upgrades, no advanced programming needed, less components, etc. I do not have any wyes on my layout.

Is anyone running MTH 2 rail engines using MTH's DCS on 2 rail track?

I do. I am not limited to MTH engines. I convert everything.

see:

http://www.oscalemag.com/docs/ost_55.pdf

Start with page 4

 John, beautiful work!

 ( sent you an email)

John, thanks so much for your help! (and Carl Tuveson)

There was a thread about this a few months back. In my eventual transition into 2-rail, I have acquired several scale-wheeled MTH Proto-2/Proto-3 engines. I typically do the initial testing on Atlas 2-rail track. They run fine in 2-rail. There's a guy who uses DCS heavily in #1 Gauge (Rayman4449) and has quite a bit of technical info on his website (http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/).

The one issue that Proto-2 engines have is that they can only pickup the digital commands from the positive/hot rail. Therefore, any polarity reversing has to be "old school" mechanical using sensors and relays which can be found at AzaTrax (http://www.azatrax.com/). Electronic reversers, like Frog Juicers (which work very well, BTW) don't quite work for this situation.

Proto-3 engines have a DCS/DCC switch so they can handle either command protocol. Hopefully I can catch up with a friend of mine and put my new engines through some DCC testing.

Hope this helps.

Yep, I run 2 rail PS2 large scale on DC power w/ DCS all day with no problems. Infact I just installed PS3 into a large scale 0-6-0 and it works just fine in the 2 rail DCS DC environment. Changing rail polarity while the loco is powered up doesn't even phase the thing  

It's been a long time coming but thank you MTH

Chuck, just curious, but how were you able to install a PS 3.0 system when they have not been released yet?

I have a conventional 2 rail railroad with blocks, and four mainline tracks. Each track is powered by a 2 rail DC power supply (Two Control 20s, one Dallee Engineer, and one MRC 6200.) The four tracks are insulated from one another but I can run any adjacent two tracks from one pack using installed toggle switches. (I made this decision to enable trains to cross over to another track.) I run passenger trains on the tracks with the higher rated power packs. I also run MTH DCS on these tracks when I run two rail MTH steam or AC4400 or GEVOs. I have no problems as long as I restrict the MTH to the tracks with the highest rated packs. (The Control 20s will go to 18 volts recommended for DCS, but the Dallee will not.) Even the highest rated packs, the two Control 20s, cannot handle two MTH engines with smoke and operating on a lighted passenger train, due to the amperage requirements. I have an old Lionel ZW that will permit this operation, but I do not want to introduce an AC transformer into the existing system since most of my other engines are can motored USH and Westside and PSC engines that use 12 VDC.

So my two choices are to install a capable AC transformer and use a DPDT toggle switch as input into the TIU so I could select either the existing DC power supply OR a transformer; or buy a higher rated DC pack. I would prefer a DC pack that will run two tracks and has two throttle handles like the MTH Z4000 AC transformer, so I could wire each handle into the TIU, and be able to run all of my engines. In my opinion, such a DC twin power supply should have a voltage capability of 18-20 VDC and a rating of 10 amps per handle. It should also be at approximately the same cost as a Z4000. Bridgewerks does make a two handle pack that is rated pretty closely to what I believe I need, but it is almost twice the price of an MTH Z4000. I could use the Z4000 and a bridge rectifier, but no separate rectifier would have the quality of the DC output that a well designed DC pack would have, over the entire operating range of the system, in my opinion.

Hudson5432:  Just a reminder -- although it may not be applicable in your existing layout -- that the typical* DC power pack with two throttles does not have transformer isolation for each throttle, making common rail return impossible if the direction switches are set to [ electrically ] opposite directions.

Best regards, SZ

*Unless practice has changed recently -- say, the last twenty years....

I AM ALSO EMBARKING ON USING DCS IN 2 RAIL, I'VE ALSO BEEN USING THE VARIABLE CHANNEL TO RUN MY STANDARD DC 2RAIL EQUIPMENT BY USING THE BOARD FROM A WILLIAMS THREE RAIL LOCO AND CONNECTING IT TO THE VARIABLE CHANNEL OUTPUTS, WORKS NOT TO BAD!

STEPHEN FROM DOWN UNDER         (CTR...Choose the Right)

I think Chuck has friends in high places! Now I'm Just playing, Chuck. Still friends too??

Steinzit,

Correct. That is why I insulated each track at the crossovers. You could think of my layout as four separate layouts, four concentric track circles if you will, with each concentric track operated by a separate pack. There is no possibility of having two separate packs operating one track due to the use of DPDT toggles. The two outer tracks are wired from the two outputs of the TIU (Fixed 1 and 2), and the non MTH engines can (and do) run in separate directions using the two packs assigned in a non DCS, 12 VDC mode. However, a single pack can operate two adjacent tracks, so that I can cross over a train from one track to the nearest next track.

My challenge is finding a cost effective DC  pack with sufficient capacity, with two handles, that can power IN1 and 2 of the TIU so that I can run my non DCS engines using a single pack. That pack would also be able to operate MTH engines on two adjacent tracks, OR, one DCS engine and one 12 VDC engine on each of two tracks without the need to rewire.......and with no possibility of killing one of my can motored USH or Westside or PSC engines by inadvertently feeding them AC and not DC power.

Steinzit,

I understand your comment regarding the common return challenge if a two handled single DC power supply is used. Since my track assignments involve trains that run in opposing directions, I would risk a dead short using one pack for two tracks if the direction of DC locos is controlled by rail polarity, which of course mine is. What I really need is a two handled DC pack with two separate and isolated power supplies. I have not investigated whether there are any designs like this, so perhaps an AC transformer and another set of toggles is in my future......my impression is that it would certainly be less expensive.

Another choice would be a single handle DC pack of sufficient power wired to IN1 for DCS. I could use the block toggles to power these two adjacent tracks and connect the pack to IN1 and use MTH engines on these tracks only.

Brilliant idea. I've pulled reverse units to add command control and not once did I think of using them to cycle track polarity.

Michael and Matt    I wish I could take credit for thinking of using the three rail board but I cant It was suggested to me hear on the forum. It was an obvious answer to using the variable channel to control DC, and thanks to stan2004 he's the brilliant one.

Stephen From Down Under      (cTr...Choose the Right)

I haven't run many engines yet and didn't want to put a whole bunch of bucks into any one system till I was sure the direction I was going. MTH at the time only produced the engines  that I wanted, not Atlas, so  the LHS steered me to a cheap DCS method. under $200. so I could run some stuff.  The only thing I don't like about it is that one has to go to neutral like the ole  Lionel trains. As I finish up I possibly will go to DCC with an NCE. product.

I am hoping that MTH will offer a plug in unit to make previous engines PS2 run on DCC.

Easy as I gutted a starter set engine

Joe, You bet!