Appraisal Help

Forget the appraiser.

The going auction price for the 2472 is here.

The going auction price for the 2657 is here.

Larry

@TrainLarry posted:

Forget the appraiser.

The going auction price for the 2472 is here.

The going auction price for the 2657 is here.

Larry

As a general rule, "sold" listings on auction sites are more reliable than active listings, since someone can "ask" for whatever price they wish.  However, when we're talking about $10 items, those examples should be more than sufficient.

Oh sure... shoot his retirement package all to pieces why don't you!

Jon

TrainLarry,

First of all I would never consider giving these away for such a low price.  Secondly,  the pictures that you provided show 2 items that are in rather bad shape.  I am no professional when it comes to grading,   but my items are in much better condition. 

This is a repeat of my experience with a couple of old Ives trains that I took to a well known hobby store here in Connecticut.  It is in New Britain.  I was told that they were not worth anything,  but the clerk there said he would take off my hands for nothing.  Well 3 weeks later I sold them for $145.

I will take my chances with them.

They're not big money cars, they are extremely common. Ive's is a lot rarer, considering they stopped production in the early 30's, meanwhile the 2657 was made for a fairly long time, and is one of the most common cabooses to come across. The 2472, while only made for two years, was included in many sets for 1946 and 1947, and was a prewar carry over. No one here is trying to rip you off, and no one is offering you money, we're just trying to assist you in the question you asked, which was the going value. You have to understand, lionel mass produced these cars, just because a train is old, does not mean they are valuable

Greenberg’s 2015 edition has the 2657 (made 40-41) at $31 in good condition and $45 in excellent.  Doyle has it made 38-42 and valued at $15 (very good), $22 (excellent) and $30 (like new).

Greenberg’s has the 2472 (made 46-47) at $13 (very good) and $29 (excellent).

I usually take the guide numbers as a sanity check/ballpark, not gospel.

I happen to have a PRR caboose numbered 477618 stamped 2457 on the bottom.

My experience is that the Greenberg and TM guides are useful only for helping to identify an item and get an idea of its rarity.  The prices listed in those guides have lost all touch with reality, especially for common items.  Like-new and mint items are bringing crazy money (check the recent results at Stout's); almost everything below those grades has fallen like a rock in the past 5 years or so.

The original post says that the cars are C-6 or C-7 - even if they're better than those in the auction site listing, that might raise their value to $20-$25 each.  In any case, not worth getting a professional appraisal.

Another thing I've experienced in recent years is that some people get hung up on what something was worth 15-25 years ago, or what they paid for it.  (Blue and Silver halls, anyone?)  We need to accept reality - with the exception of rare or pristine items, anything that we purchased for the going price between about 1990 and 2005 is worth a whole lot less now.

Check ebay sold auctions for what people are paying. Seems $20 plus shipping for C7 is about right.

@PRRick posted:

Check ebay sold auctions for what people are paying. Seems $20 plus shipping for C7 is about right.

A lot of patience helps.  I look at recent sales on eBay and try to price at roughly the 80th percentile for items in similar condition.  Then I wait and usually get my price - sometimes I've waited 3-4 months.

Sometimes I'll set the Buy-it-now at the highest number I think reasonable and activate the make me an offer.  I'll then enter to automatically accept an offer - usually between 10% and 25% off the BIN.

I sell 250 to 300 cars locomotives and accessories each year and do well with this strategy.

I'll use the auction when I have a good idea of the minimum I would take but the item is scarce enough that I have no idea of the upside.  I'll start a 10 day auction at that lowest price and often I'll get much more.  I had one prewar AF accessory that I listed at $99 and got $405.  I always set auctions to begin on Thursday so that I have two weekends to catch people who don't look regularly during the week.

If you want to see what they go for check EBay. They are worth about $15. ea. The 2472 is postwar, & the 2657 is prewar(tinplate).

When it comes to real monetary value, with the exception of very high-end items the market peaked around 2007 and has been sliding downwards ever since. As far as price guides go, this isn't limited to train related guides but is true of most collector guides. In order to sell newer editions publishers will often keep overestimating the prices to make the guides more attractive. If the prices in the guides fell to reflect reality many collectors wouldn't buy newer versions when "cataloging" their collections.

If these two items are appraised at $5 dollars each and you sell them for $25 each, you have increased the net value by forty dollars.  How many many man hours do you want spent on this subject for those forty dollars?  John

Rattler21

I sense that you have a bit of a problem with my post.  I posted a subject and people responded.  To say the very least, I am impressed with your math skills but I do not appreciate your comments about the hours spent on this subject.  If you have a problem I suggest that you address the people who have responded  to the post or better yet you can just disregard the subject all together. 

I will adjust nothing and unsubscribe when I am good and ready.

@ChooChoo1972 posted:

When it comes to real monetary value, with the exception of very high-end items the market peaked around 2007 and has been sliding downwards ever since. As far as price guides go, this isn't limited to train related guides but is true of most collector guides. In order to sell newer editions publishers will often keep overestimating the prices to make the guides more attractive. If the prices in the guides fell to reflect reality many collectors wouldn't buy newer versions when "cataloging" their collections.

I do find one way in which the guides are useful.  They are a fairly reasonable to relative value.  They ill tell about some unusual versions that may have a value that is much higher.

I get frustrated with their good (C-5) and excellent (C-7) values because so much of what I sell is closer to C-6.

I'm amused by the fuss about time value.  IT reminds me of an article in Model Railroader when I was a subscriber in the 50's - when we actually built our model trains.

There was an article that showed how we show value our purchases in terms of cost per hour of model railroading fun.  For example, a $7 kit that took five hours to build was a better value than a $4 kit that could be built in two hours - $1.40 per hour vs. $2.00 per hour.

I sometimes think about the time doing renovations, like spending 10 hours on a prewar locomotive that I sold for $60.  So I earn $6 per hour, but the fun value is worth much more.

Seems like you are getting a lot of free appraisals of some fairly common cars. But if you want to track down a professional appraiser, knock yourself out. My guess is that he will just look at sold prices on Ebay and other sites, same as everyone is doing here.

As someone who has prepared many, lengthy, written appraisals—including Frank Sinatra’s collection—which have been accepted by courts and for which, I was paid many thousands of dollars, I will second, third & fourth the suggestions made here, that the OP check eBay sold listings.  The cars in question are quite common.  IF, they were brand new, C10, in perfect, factory fresh boxes, with all original packing materials, I do not see them bringing much over $100.00 each.  In any condition below that, start by deducting 50% and go down from there.

Hope you are all doing well,

Allen Drucker

@Will posted:

Seems like you are getting a lot of free appraisals of some fairly common cars. But if you want to track down a professional appraiser, knock yourself out. My guess is that he will just look at sold prices on Ebay and other sites, same as everyone is doing here.

...and then charge a fee that is more than the cars are worth.

@Mallard4468 posted:

...and then charge a fee that is more than the cars are worth.

Exactly. I think the best advice the OP is getting is not the value, but that hiring an appraiser is going to cost far more than the cars are worth.

I am amazed at the responses that I have gotten on this simple post.   It's sad that along with the helpful and genuine replies,  I also received some sarcastic bull that I feel wasn't necessary. 

To the nice helpful people I say thank you,  to the others I simply say screw you.

In the end these were sold today for $75.   I guess that there are rude people even on this web site.