Are the PS3 upgrade kits out yet?

Later this year.

When later this year and at what cost?

Later is later and yes, there will be some cost.

Contact MTH for details...

I have heard that there will be no more PS-2 upgrade kits, new upgrades will be PS-3's only. So will the PS-3 upgrade kits be intended for replacing the original boards in locos not equipped with PS-2 units, or are they primarily aimed at upgrading PS-2 locos to PS-3 electronics? If the latter, does this mean there will no longer be support for upgrading the older locos with the QSI system or even older units with conventional electronic AC e-units?

Also, how much is to be gained by upgrading a PS-2 loco to PS-3? For use on a home layout, and as long as the loco has the DC type can motors, wouldn't installing DCC boards be easer and more cost effective (assuming the modeler doesn't already have a large investment in DCS controls)?

Bill in FtL

I read somewhere (probably here) that they will be plug compatible with the PS2 systems. Probably meant for repair / replacement VS upgrading PS2 to PS3.

They do have more memory / processing power so Upgrades will be of some benefit.

Reason: Some sound sets are nice but made for the wrong engine type so the speed and such is off in a PS2 engine.

Those can be loaded into a PS3 board without changing the Speed and command portion of the code.

Possible they did the compatability so they can use the harness' that they already have designed as well.

Also, how much is to be gained by upgrading a PS-2 loco to PS-3? For use on a home layout, and as long as the loco has the DC type can motors, wouldn't installing DCC boards be easer and more cost effective (assuming the modeler doesn't already have a large investment in DCS controls)?

Show me a DCC board that can do what a PS2 or 3 board can do. And show me a DCC system that can handle the same amount of power that a DCS system can handle which btw is virtually unlimited.

I dont understand why everybody has a chubby for the PS-3 upgrades. the only differnce is LED lighting and capacitors instead of batteries. Upgrades are a PITA to put in any loco

Right on Chuck.  Im must have lived a very sheltered life.  I do not know a DCC guy.  I have been in the hobby for a while and have never met one.   DCS and Legacy for me.

I HATE batteries!!! But if ps2 upgrades are cheaper than ps3, i'll get one if I need one. Also, thinking that my ps2 5v boards if they blow cost $180 plus labor( at a train store,) i'll do it myself.

P.S. What railsound did they get rid of the battery in?

Does anyone know what the predicted cost will be?

Dave,  Does it do synchronized smoke and sounds, fire couplers too?  BEMF while pretty good doesn't compare to direct speed measurement via Tach in my opinion.

Nick, Yes.  MTH probably knows. 

Not sure what all the heart ache with batteries are for the PS-2 3V system.  The AA don't leak at least I have not seen one.  Last about 7 years, and even if done engine still runs fine on DCS. 

The other thing folks need to know is if you damage PS-3 diesel board (which is what the kit will have initially) your out $220 MSRP.  Component level repairs on these boards are going to be a lot harder/limited.

Since the PS-3 board goes $20 more than a full PS-2 board, plus the additional board to interface with the PS-2 harnesses, I am assuming a $40 to 50 increase.  Just my guess, will see when we actually have them.   G

I agree with GGG, I'm not that excited about the PS/3 upgrade kits.  I see very little that can be repaired in the field on those boards, so the cost of ownership is almost surely going to go up.

I have no problems with batteries, except nthat I have done some upgrades of non-DCS locos where finding a place for the AA was a problem.  I now have a stock of 2/3 AAs and a few submini Varta batteries, so that should no longer be a problem.

GGG, what's this about an interface board?

I'm very excited about PS/3 kits.   I would love to convert a couple of my 3rd Rail loco's to have both DCS and DCC.   Then I could take them to the local club and run on their 2 rail DCC track.  I have a huge O Scale 2 Rail club 1/2 a block walk from my house.  The only thing hold me back from joining is that I'm 3 rail!  Having some equipment that I can run on both layouts would be very desirable    

The upgrade kits will not use LEDs.  There is an interface board that plugs into the PS-3 board, and than your PS-2 3V harness plug into the interface board.  All the normal bulbs remain.

This allows the board to be a repair for a PS-2 3V engine that goes bad, when PS-2 3V boards are no longer made or in stock.   G

One wonders if there'll be an option to lose the extra board and use LED's, since I prefer them for my upgrades anyway.

I'm excited about the prospect of the miniature PS3 board, that will permit DCS control of smaller locos, like the 44-ton & 45-ton GEs & the Docksider

George, these boards will also be available to have 5V connections to make your 5V system a PS3.  This will be a great situation.

John, I suggested in each kit should be some LEDs and a few resistors for guys that want the LED lights.  Many of us have been installing LED lighting in upgrade kits for a while now.  I recently did an upgrade for Locolawyer and I will try to find the picture.  I know what the PS3 upgrade boards look like and hopefully Mike will let me post something soon.

I'm not interested in upgrading to PS3 from PS2 if my PS2 engines are running fine.  I am interested in having PS3 systems installed in the engines I have that have fried PS2 boards.  I have several of them.  It will be less expensive than purchasing a new identical PS3 engine. 

Chuck,  Right now you can repair those PS-2 boards, even if they are 5V boards.  If you have any 3V they have a higher probability being repaired at the component level.  I do that work, e-mail in profile if interested.  G

George has fixed several boards for me and they all run perfectly.

Marty, I really wouldn't be interested in paying extra for them to package LED's, I was thinking of leaving out the interface board and using the native PS/3 board.  Since it already drives LED's, it seems silly to have another interface board that does what the bare board is already capable of.

Problem will be getting the connector and the wires with terminals.  If you give those wires to the GP, there will be a lot of broken wires, bent pins, and shorted boards. They are very delicate.  G

Thanks Marty

John, the value of the interface board aside from upgrade kits is to bring PS2 to older PS2 locomotives.  What you are talking about will work if you do your own LED work.  All I do is cut the bulb off the end and install the proper resistor and LED.  The only LED lighting I use on steam is the front and rear headlight.  The LED markers are already done for us.  The way MTH wants to do the upgrades will work for me.  I have done 149 DCS upgrades to date and have only run into a few guys that want LEDs.  You are my go to guy for learning about LED lighting.  I have used the passenger car circuit you posted about two years ago.  To achieve how you want to do things will get you out for less dollars.  You having gone to MTH school will be able to buy the PS3 diesel board.  

I have no information on pricing yet on the upgrade kit.  I feel MTH can make a lot of money from guys with dead 5V engines.  The way the interface board plugs in will take the headache of the 40 pin plug away.

I was looking forward to PS3 because I thought it might be a smaller package, so I could fit it into a few engines and MU units I have. I have since found it that if anything, it's larger. 

Does anyone know if an S scale or HO scale PS3 system can be run alongside an O scale system?  By along side I mean work on 18 VAC, and be controlled by the same TIU/Remote. No need for a lash up.  Don't worry about the current capability for these smaller scales.  The engines I have in mind will draw far less than an amp

John,

Both HO and S Gauge PS3 engines will work with all current DCS components. The only caveat is that the TIU's variable channels will not work with DC voltage.

I agree that if they PS/3 board is the only game in town that they'll need the interface board for older locomotive replacements.  I was referring to the upgrade kit, a different animal.  I'd simply like to have an option to omit the extra incandescent compatibility in exchange for a lower priced option.

I'm surprised that of around 150 upgrades that only a few wanted LED lighting.  Whenever people see my conversions, that's one of the first things that gets asked.

John, I do many steam locomotives and personally do not like bright white LEDs in a steam locomotive.  I will do whatever people want to pay for.  Yes, we can get off shades and some look very cool.  I do like bright white in the FM trainmasters.  Being a toy train guy, I think they look very good.  We are lucky today to have some very good looking LEDs available to us. 

I spend a lot of time looking at what Evans has available.

I am not a big fan of the 40 pin connection on diesel boards. 

Really interesting guys. But what will happen to ps1? Are there cables to connect to those connections? Also if you have a ps1 engine( like the C&WN E-4 in marty's second picture) Do you upgrade it or just keep it? Want to get a premier daylight and upgrade it but don't know if it's worth it.

Marty, I don't use the bright white in steamers, and even most older style diesels get the warm white.  They look very realistic.

I'm not a fan of any of the PS/3 connectors, too stinkin' small to work on!

I just got a MTH PRR MU set.  It has a bright LED in the headlight of the power car.  Does not look realistic at all.  The other end of the train has an incandescent.  Color is perfect.

Nick:  The only way to update a pre-PS2 loco is to essentially gut it.  The upgrade kits came with all the replacement guts.

John Sethian, did you catch the note above that a mini-board is planned?  MTH so announced on Wed night session at York.  Also, I have been told that the HO board has a capacity of 1 amp, not enough for O gauge, if that's what you're thinking.

Nick, the E-4 is an upgraded PS1.  I do not have any PS1 on the layout.  I am now and will always be a PS1 fan.  It was great in it's time.  I have a large stock of PS1 boards from upgrades.  Doing repair work for Charles Ro, I am starting to see a lot of PS1 starting to show up for a new lease on life.  It is all good, I like it all.

Beautiful engine. I don't like ps1 but am considering upgrading engines that I have and that I purchase. Will the ps2 upgrade kits be cheaper now because of these ps3 kits?

P.S. Marty: Saw a premier Hiawatha, is it ps3 or 2? I have a rk ps1( which is why I hate ps1. Buyers remorse.)

Nick, we were told at York that there will be no more shipments of PS2 upgrade kits after the current lot is done.

Nick, if you have the E-4 and are thinking about upgrading, contact me as something needs to be done very careful.

Marty, I am thinking about buying a mth daylight with ps1(20-3029) and then upgrading it. Probably no bells and whistles( meaning LEDs and such not actual bells and whistles) to keep cost down. I see a lot of people with these engines that upgraded them(like yourself) to ps2. What will you do with the ps1 "guts" when you are done with upgrades? 

The Daylight is a good engine to do.  I have done several of them.   Use the lights that came with the kit and it will look like the real thing.  I have been with the real engine and crew many times and it will look correct with the upgrade kit.

Keep or sell the PS-1 electronics.  Many people run PS-1 and it is a good system.

RJR

 I missed that comment about the mini board first time around.  Thanks for calling it to my attention. Do you have any details on this?