Are train shows getting better or worse?

Well personally, I recently attended the SETCA meet in Raleigh.  I am in my mid-twenties and decided to bring two good friends, who are the same age and not currently interested in trains, along.  I hope no one takes offense, but they made a couple of comments about the show.  First, they made the comment that there were hardly any young people there, just old men (I actually thought there were a lot of younger people there, compared to other recent shows).  Second, they noticed that some members were not interested in price negotiations.  Overall, I thought it was a great show, but I guess it is always good getting feedback from outsiders.

In this area, the number of shows has dwindled, as has both the number of tableholders, and the number of shoppers.
That does not mean anything regarding the health of the hobby. Trains are more available in retail shops, and many people buy online.

Ebay certainly has had an effect.

 

For what it is worth, my wife and I like to attend Flea markets and outdoor Antique shows. While the number of shows hasn't dropped, the number of vendors certainly has. The number of customers attending these shows also has dropped significantly, although attendance appeared to have been up a bit last season. We will attend our first show of the season next week.

well the train shows me and my grandpa go to are not that great. Their are a lot of old trains not in great shape . But the show is for O gauge stuff and that is what is not a lot of it is all of ho stuff and tin-plate . No legacy or tmcc stuff maybe one or two dcs engines . All the people their are old 40 or 50 or upper 60 I was the only 14 year kid their. But this is the only train show in my area. hope this helps. - Matt

Over the past twenty years, they haven't gotten better or worse.  The products have gotten better, but the shows stay about the same.  

 

They do vary a lot - better one time, worse the next, in ways I have come to accept I just cannot predict.  One this past weekend here in central NC was not too great, whereas a previous one at the same venue, back in winter when you'd think it might be a bit poor because of weather, was fantastic.  

Oh Matt; if you only knew how soon those 40 and 50 year olds will seem young. 

 

The number of train shows here in the Atlanta area is still about the same as when I first moved here 11 years ago but, the O gauge offerings at these shows have diminished.  That isn't an issue for me as I am just as apt to purchase a book or video as I am something for my layout.

 

While I can recollect how big train shows were when I first re-entered the hobby in the late 1980's in Houston, I can't honestly say I enjoyed the huge shows back then more than the smaller ones today.  I have a much wider network of train related friends today than I did back in the late '80's.  I now enjoy visiting with my friends at shows more than shopping for trains or train related stuff. 

 

Curt

I don't know, but I am going to do my part to keep them getting better. Isn't that the most we can do?

quote:

At this stage of our train hobby, there is little we need or want and the volume of people attending has dwindled enough so taking a table and spending all day to recover expenses just is not appealing.

 

I do not purchase much at train shows either. Just stuff for tinkering.
Then I have to figure out what to do with the finished product. Its been a while since those repaired trains were an easy sell for folks to run under the Christmas tree. I think newly made starter sets are more attractive for most folks.

It could be that awful shows from 10 - 15 years ago are still awful and therefore seem stable. Landlocked show attendees in these areas may not know how good it could be elsewhere. In the NY City - Northern NJ - Eastern Pennsylvania area, we once had great shows. They have all declined to varying degrees including York and York bandit meets IMO except for possibly Allentown which seems to have improved.  

 

The decline of all local show events and flea markets illustrates the influence of the internet on buying habits. When the train show circuit came about, train collecting was in its infancy, the audience was young and it was the main place to buy trains. Today 20+ years after the internet came about, it has simplified the buying process. This is true for many commodities and the now older, smaller, perhaps less energetic train buying audience most likely uses it frequently.  In this region the Greenberg Show and the Allentown Show are still good and active but all of the other train shows have experienced a severe decline. Everything changes with time.

Agreed. I remember some of the great shows in New Jersey which are no longer with us....Cranford, Union, Kenilworth and Holmdel to name a few.

 

Bob

  

Like everything.....Train shows over the past 25 years have changed.

 

And to quote Jay Leno 'Bad pizza is still pizza'  there is a certain logic to that. A 'bad' train show with display layouts, some trains to look at and people and/or friends to talk trains can't be all bad.

 

Different today.......not better or worse....

In my area there's only one show a year now. It is the Christmas Show that's held the first weekend in December. It started as a TTOS Show almost forty-years ago. The draw has really picked up in recent years. There are more and more young families in attendance with each year. It's nice to see young parents giving their children that most cherished experience. It's about toy trains and Christmas.

 

The vendors have changed over the years. Gone are a few dear friends that have past on. Now the youngsters man the tables with good clean used trains and accessories at prices that are affordable. Not like the days of old when some thought that toy trains were an investment.

 

These days we still have the "naysayers" just as we had forty-years ago. From the feedback on the shows I know of, this hobby is far from dying.

I've been disappointed lately except for the Big "E".

Interesting responses.  I'm not sure that I haven't changed more than the shows have.  By that I mean that I used to be all about finding something on my want list or getting a deal on something.  Now it is more about seeing friends and catching up with them.

 

Art

Hmm how do you balance it? Most of the guys I use to sell with have given up. Others have stepped in and taken their place. But the guys with silly PW pricing are still around. The buyers have changed though, many of the current breed are looking for scale only items.

Jim

A couple friends and I started up a show in Evansville, IN last November.  We took over from someone who'd run a local show for years.  We relocated the show to a downtown Evansville location and had 449 paying customers come in.  There was a good mix of older folks/families with kids - I was impressed by our turnout, and hope that we can continue the show for a long time to come.

I agree with Mr. Burfle's first comment.  When I got back into "tinplate" in 1985, there were sometimes two train shows a day in an area and I would race from one to the other, and there were reasonably large, successful train shows in small towns.

Poof!!  Gone!  Now I root through several magazines to find something going on for

the weekend, that you can get to from here, without a plane ticket,  and often it is zilch.  Only Wheaton (Chicago) seems to have the momentum to carry forward a consistent monthly show, and that is a "fur piece". (is that the only monthly show in

the country..nothing even in the northeast?)

Our local quarterly show seemed to be adding more tables over the past year and increased attendance. I'm not sure how that will continue this coming year as a disgruntled train club has decided they were going to split from the current organizer and have their own show two weeks before the regular show.

It's kind of sad as for the reason for the split (not public knowledge) seems irrational and the man who has kept a show going all these years is a pretty good guy. I don't think he profits much ($25 a table) and I doubt he recoups the money he spends for the landscaped 3 x 6  HO layout he gives away as a door prize twice a year.  

 

I'm gonna stick with tradition and support the one who dedicated his free time to keep the hobby in the public eye even during rough times. I can only afford so many train shows and club nights a year anyway.

Matt,

I used to run shows years ago in the '70s in the NY area. It is a lot of work, takes a lot work with set up and tear down, money for help, money for advertising and more behind the scenes efforts than you can imagine.

Why did I (we) do it, because it was very profitable if you did a good job selling all the tables and bringing in the people. Successive ones were easier as long as the sellers and buyers kept coming.

Nobody is doing any train show for the love of giving his free time!

I live in the Philly area and the only shows I go to now are Allentown and York. The smaller shows are a total waste of time. It's a shame because I always went to the smaller shows but no more. 

number of dealers?

number of tables?

Venue where show is located?

 

I have seen a rise and fall in all 3 catagories.

the smaller shows are not necessarily not as good as the bigger shows.

I take my board to the Syracuse NY show every November. And there are

many many many tables and dealers. I also run trains at the Fulton NY show the

very next weekend and I particularly like that show just as much although its very small compared to Syracuse. I can find some "sleepers" at the small shows

that would not be available at the bigger shows.

     We went to a small show in Rochester NY a few months back. It was sponsered

by the local TCA. So automatically I assumed it would be big and good.

I found some great finds but it was neither big or good as far as size and numbers.

It was in a small community center with bad access. My wife(who doesn't walk real well), had to walk up a two flight ramp to the center. Then when she needed to go to the ladies room, she had to walk down two flights of stairs.

There were probably 10-15 dealers tops and I don't think there were 20 tables.

And if you wanted to see layouts run, you had to walk down a flight of stairs.

AND the elevator was out of commission, so it was not handicapped accessable.

I couldn't agree more.  I will take a drive up to Edison when my schedule fits as that's still a good show but the others, not so much for me. 

--Greg

We have very few train shows around here, maybe 3-4 a year. When they have one it is mostly HO & N, very little O gauge stuff. The only ones I have been to (went to 2 or 3 in 2011-2012) they were pretty crowded, had lots of vendors and people of all ages were attending. Just not much O gauge, so I haven't been back. May try to go to a couple this year and see if anything has changed? 

We didn't even have any train shows in my area (central Pennsylvania) till about five years ago.  Now there's one twice a year, spring and fall.  And attendance has been growing exponentially.  Last time I was there, the parking lot was completely full and so was the exhibit hall.

 

As for me, I just now looked around, and found that I've bought four of my locomotives (and uncounted cars and accessories) from that show, and there were plenty of others spending money last time I was there.

 

For those who wring their hands and agonize over such things, all age groups are represented, from little kids barely tall enough to see the tables to retirees and beyond, with everything in between.

 

 

Balshis - That is a very encouraging report.  Apparently good operators can still hold good train shows and the public will respond.

 

Art

As I've switched my interests from O gauge to Standard Gauge, the only decent show is York.
I went to the Big E for the first time this year and I was done after about 2 hours.
I also missed my first Allentown show in quite some time. Not much there in tinplate either.
I live in Edison and I don't bother to go to the shows here.
Quite honestly I'd rather spend my Saturday/Sunday afternoons doing something else.

Worse.  Lower attendance.  Fewer sellers.  Fewer buyers.  Fewer modular layouts.  Higher admission ticket prices.  Higher parking fees.  Higher hot dog prices.

 

Joe

 I find it tough to find listings for local shows via the internet. (yes, I know there are sites) The other issue is advertising to the general public.

In my area (Tucson), there are three shows a year, sponsored by my organization, the Gadsden Pacific Toy Train Museum. In the past few years, they have improved a great deal, in large part because of a change of venue. We had a difficult relationship with our former venue, and the breaking point was reached when the owner resold one of our contract dates for a quinceañera and notified us about three weeks before the event.

 

Now we are in a much larger, brighter, cleaner facility and our vendors and public have responded. We have about 50% more vendors and public attendance than a few years ago, and we have been able to expand our shows from one day to two. As both a vendor and sponsor, I'm overjoyed at the improvement.

 

 

I agree with Joe and that's why I stopped attending shows 10 or so yrs ago.  Absolutely everything I need or want is on the internet or at my LHS.

As far as I know, the only one train show in my area (Rockwall TX)( Dallas).is in Plano TX., My wife and I with another couple attended. It was a good show with a lot of HO-N-Z and a small amount of O gauge. All venders were very friendly, the problem I saw was a lack of display room, realizing space is money I decided if something was interesting, I just ask the vendor to show it to me. Overall the outing was enjoyable and we will probably attend the next one. No there was nothing to buy, we were really looking for Standard Gauge track.

 

One reason for this post is I NEVER saw it mentioned on this forum or in the train magazine(s) I subscribe to. The owner of the LHS (now out of business) handed me a flyer for the show.

 

Brent

That is the only way I found out about the train shows in my area, from visiting my LHS often and talking to the owner. He is the one that told me about them. Another reason to support your LHS while it's still around (if you have one).

I joined the Maine 3 Railers in January and have now attended 3 shows in the area with them.

The first one was a new first ever show and was well attended if a bit small area wise. The next iteration of that show will be in November here in Rochester, NH.

We have a large venue and are looking forward to a large turnout.

 

In between I'm attending monthly events with the club, Every one has tables for rent and our Layout running. The layout varies with the venue and can be quite large. Last month was a 4 train layout with a crossover so the operator had to stay alert.

 

Turnout ebbs and flows with weather so far. Bad weather got low turnout in March, but last months was booming for several hours. Since each one is in a new community the crowd is ever changing.

One thing I see every time: Kids love running the LionChief Thomas the train.

Older kids like running the Lionchief Area 51 train or even the Legacy ones depending on age.

For many years I had one table at all the Greenberg shows in Mass. I also did most of the NETCA shows. I have seen a big drop in attendance and people buying trains. Most of the time at the Greenberg shows the attendance is mostly family just out to look at the layouts. If you figure in the cost of the table, the gas, the lunch and being there from 8:00 am to closing at 4:00pm for 2 days you have to sell a lot of fright cars just to cover cost and that is a problem. I do not do them anymore. As for the NETCA shows, well very low attendance, and if you are not giving it away you take it home. I do not do them either anymore. York is the best show, I go to York for the week and I only buy there. Springfield MA comes in second. It is not like it was a few years ago. I am seeing less and less people getting involved with our hobby.

I have been attending most of the Detroit area train shows (about 10/year) for the past 8 years, so this is my frame of reference.   For the first several years I was mostly interested as a buyer.  Since then I have become more interested in meeting old friends and enjoying the modular layouts.

Number of shows - SAME

Number of vendors - SAME

Number of buyers - LESS

Age of buyers - SAME (older)

Prices - LOWER

I go to the shows in Richmond, for "something to do". If I find something, that's a plus. York is my main show......and if I can swing it, I like to go to Allentown.

 

The Chantilly Greenberg show is still pretty reasonable.

 

Peter

I liked the NETCA shows when they were in the High School in Marlboro. I used to hit the Piccadilly Pub after the show. I just learned that the whole chain of restaurants has closed.

I also went to the SETCA show in Raleigh last weekend.  Since I only recently returned to the hobby, I don't have a historic perspective of shows, but I'll give my impression of what I experienced.

 

They advertised over 100 tables - unless several vendors had 10-15 tables each, I didn't see it.  I'd say most attendees were older folks (like myself), but I saw maybe a half dozen dads with their kids - mostly looking at layouts.  Admission was reasonable (don't know what it has been).  It seemed more vendors were reselling someone's traded in stuff (some pretty sad looking) vs vendors selling new ITB stuff.  Prices were all over the place, although there were some bargains/finds (compared to internet prices).  Access, parking, etc. were OK - parking competed with several other events at the Raleigh fairgrounds, as is the norm there.  The most value I derived was discussions and contact with a few non-local vendors/LHS owners that I was not aware of, for future use.  That's important since the largest local LHS carrying O guage is going out of business in July.  It was a fun 1 1/2 hrs while it lasted.

 

I think they hold it again in Aug or the fall - I'll visit again then for comparison at the least.

 

Tom

It is hard to say if they are better or worse.  Fewer for sure here in the northeast.  A poster above noted the number of shows that have gone away.  There was a time when one could attend one or several every weekend.  Now it looks like the Dover show will join the ranks of those others leaving Allentown, Greenberg and York as the go to events.  No offence to the New York folks but tolls being what they are it just isn't work crossing two bridges to go to a train show.