Are you tired about when it comes to NEW lionel product

i can't figure out why lionel doesn't make the water spout on their top of the line 50,000 gal. water tower lower by remote control, either a simple button or legacy/tmcc or both. the spout on the cheaper water tower lowers.

More passenger trains!!!!!!!!! They have been noticeably absent over the past few years.

Interesting thread!  I have had good luck with Lionel recently and was favorably impressed when Mike Reagan called me re: a question I posted on the Forum.  I think the key is quality control.  There will always be occasional problems with any device, but when you pay mucho $ for a Lionel (or MTH or 3rd Rail) engine, the expectation should be that its going to work just fine.  And, if there is a problem, prompt, courteous and efficient service is what the customer paying big bucks deserves.

 

I agree with QC and have more prototype cars and engines and more conventional engines in chessie,B&O,C&O,WM roadname and get rid of the crew talk just need directional led lights and cruise and engine rev and horn and bell.  

Quality control would be the only priority for me. I love Lionel, but have had many problems out of the box. Enough that I worry about every new product I purchase. Just bought my first Legacy engine, no Legacy system yet, very nice sound and detail. The new Lionel ZW is very impressive. However, when I got back into trains in 2005, I bought the new version of the ZW with the 180 watt bricks. I sent in for repairs several times, and now I heard the motherboard is no longer available. I will wait and see how the newer version is holding up a year from now.  I don't wait for the Lionel catalog like I used to.

 

Bob

"Are you tired about when it comes to NEW Lionel product."

 

One of the great debates in History is whether history itself is cyclical? I have written elsewhere that one can argue that we have entered the second great contraction in the history of O Gauge railroading. The first being from approximately from 1965 - 1995. The second being from 2008 - Present (and obviously beyond). This phenomenon is certainly not restricted to Lionel alone, but also includes MTH, the bankrupt KLine, and I'm sure others that will unfold in the future. I don't have any strong commitments to the actual dates; I do feel that this second cycle though is unmistakable.

2) I too vote for more Lionmaster Steam engines w/ Legacy.  A reissued NYC J3 or C&O yellow belly Hudson, N&W Class A, or SP cab-forward w/ Legacy would be highly popular.  From what I've seen, Lionmaster steam engines consistently maintain a high demand on the second hand market.  A great offering, if the new tooling was economically feasible, would be a Lionmaster N&W #611 J w/ Legacy.  I've harped over the years that Lionel seems to often ignore the customer demand for these highly detailed, yet selectively compressed engines.  Thus leaving this unfulfilled demand to MTH and their Imperial RK line which has been AWOL for the past 2.5 yrs.

 

3) Forget about these "tie-in" sets such as Wizard of Oz, NASCAR, and Lone Ranger (mostly unknown to those under the age of 35).  Based upon the blowouts (esp. NASCAR at $29 or less for the initial 3 car sets), I would guess these "tie-in" sets were not successful.  The Polar Express with both its literary and movie storyline directly linked to a train was successful.  Also, annual television broadcasts of The Polar Exp. movie provides added demand for the sale of this holiday themed set.  The Harry Potter/Hogwarts set's financial bottom line is unknown, but probably would have been significantly better if Lionel had the train set available for the premier of the movie and not several months later.  I think the "Peanuts gang" cars (not set) were good because they were limited to Halloween/Thanksgiving/Christmas and are also reinforced by the annual rebroadcast of the respective popular TV shows and some cars were produced in the U.S.A.

 

3) Lastly, work with MTH (Lionel Corporation Tinplate) to make a Polar Express tinplate set in both O and Std. gauge with a product release in early November!!!...not January!  Lionel, MTH and Warner Brothers Entertainment should all benefit from this particular product.  The movie franchise is 10 years old and a tinplate version of the Polar Exp. would, IMHO, add some buzz and money to the P.E. franchise and be highly desired within and possibly outside the hobby.

Definitely want to see new operating accessories and operating and/or sound cars.

Would like to see more Legacy small steam.

3) Lastly, work with MTH (Lionel Corporation Tinplate) to make a Polar Express tinplate set in both O and Std. gauge with a product release in early November!!!...not January!  Lionel, MTH and Warner Brothers Entertainment should all benefit from this particular product.  The movie franchise is 10 years old and a tinplate version of the Polar Exp. would, IMHO, add some buzz and money to the P.E. franchise and be highly desired within and possibly outside the hobby.

 

I agree 100% on that one! I think Lionel and MTH would be missing out if they didn't make these. Look at what the Polar Express did for Lionel sales and who would have thought a scale Polar Express would do well?  Think outside the box guy's.

I'm still waiting for part 2 of the Lionel movie to be released.

Quality control for sure, but I also understand the problems manufacturers are facing in finding suitable suppliers with a trained and qualified workforce.  Probably going to get worse before it gets any better.

 

My Legacy system has been so problematic that I have stopped using it until I can get it over to the Lionel Service Center, and an 0-4-0 "Shifter" I bought recently from the Lionel Store has a slight warp in the casting (running board on engineer's side).  An e-mail to the Lionel Store simply got me a link to the parts department...not what I was hoping for/expecting.

I'm happy with the offerings , I just hope they continue with the Conventional Classics. As far as what else: An extra measure of quality control for sure. Sean

The modern catalogs IMO lack the magic of even the 1966 catalog. There was something to the photos of actual train sets not photo shopped HO. The 1964 - 65 catalogs on pulp paper with fuzzy black and white photos added mystique. 

Tired of today's boring catalogs with page after page of incomprehensible priced engines that need wide radius curves. I find it hard to believe they can make any money off that stuff. If it were not for a relative handful of people on these forums ushering and explaining these things along and preaching to the choir, I do not understand who they sell these items to.

I would say quality control. I have had engines and tPC not work out of box.

 

The other is offer more semi-scale lion master items as I thought Lionel would do this after K-lines demise. 

 

Lastly Legacy is a step forward but plenty more can be added with RFID signal systems, train detection, drive a train around the layout to get mapping so then could do all kinds of control things with that, and make a soft version of legacy for computer/iPad.

#1. Quality Control.

#2. Conventional Control engines with improved slow-speed performance.

#3. Simple but realistic "railsounds".

#4. Rolling stock that bridges the gap between 1:48 and "standard" O-Gauge.

 

I will not pay $1000+ for an engine/locomotive that will be obsolete or worse, broken in 10-20 years. I definitely will pay for it if I know my grandchildren will still be able to operate them after I'm long gone. I am operating equipment now that was made in Hillside, NJ over 50 years ago that my Dad bought me. Will ANY of the stuff made today be functional 50 years from now? I don't think so.

 

Also, what I am looking for in current trains is simply DC like slow speed control and  engine/locomotive sounds. IMO, "crew talk" and all that start-up chatter is totally unnecessary.

 

While I understand Lionel and all the other manufacturers are in a tough spot when it comes to controlling costs and remaining competitive, if production is brought back to the US, QC will go up.

 

Finally, I definitely like some of the new scale engines and rolling stock but the size difference between that and traditional O-gauge makes running them both together on the same layout problematical for me. Some equipment that is "in-the-middle" size-wise will make the transition easier.

 

1. Quality control

2. Quality control

3. Quality control

4. Redesign the Legacy remote to fit the human hand. Invent some more intuitive icons, rework the buttons (preferably with real pushbuttons, not those membrane things) and reshape it so it looks and feels like a control unit, not a brick. Legacy has a lot of nice features, but that abomination of a remote has kept me from buying. 

 

& Make the new Cab-1  In 4 different flourescent colors so i can find them around the layout.

I am happy with them for the most part especially the service. A Little QC for me to .

I want more electronics not less!  The more features they can stuff into the trains the better IMO. 

 

I had PW, don't want it anymore. It is 2013, time to leave that old stuff behind and embrace the digital age. Things change and unless we do you get left behind. 

 

Also stop wishing for production to move back to the USA anytime soon. Not going to happen. We have to stop looking back and start to look forward when it comes to production of products. Who cares where stuff is built, my trains are built in china, I don't care! When china implodes they will be built somewhere else, maybe the USA but I doubt it. So lets all just play with our trains and stop all the angst over something we can't control. 

QC would be the #1 thing to do!!    While I stopped buying trains w/ tons of electronics in them due to DOA issues, the QC problem is still present in the whole line.   My recently bought cc Berk set  the engine would not run in reverse - I had to take it apart to fix the issue - shouldn't have to do this right out of the box.

 

And like others have said -  something for people that are not running 072 curves.   Some classic postwar style stuff , like they have been doing fits the bill just fine.

 

Another thing would be better catalogs - the UP 50 aniv, set was returned by my once I saw the Alcos had the ribs - no where in the photos or features was this mentioned when I placed my pre order. 

 

QUALITY CONTROL
QUALITY CONTROL
QUALITY CONTROL

 

So far this year, 70% of my engines from Lionel and MTH have to be fixed after arriving new in the box.  These QC problems are turning me into a full time repair station.  QC has gotten much worse, IMO, than back in the 2000-2007 time frame.

A few years ago when Jerry took over as CEO of Lionel, he saw the market as a funnel with the wide area at the top being the mass and entry level market to be filled with lots of low priced trains with broad market appeal. Obviously they are meeting this goal by having expanded their customer base to include places like Menards, Wegman's, and Michaels and by offering a steady stream of entry level sets many of which have been co-branded with popular and/or familiar names like The Lone Ranger, the Boy Scouts, "A Christmas Story", Coca Cola, etc.

 

At the same time he saw the narrow end of the funnel as a MUCH smaller market consisting of the serious hobbyist (which seems to include many of you here on this forum) who demanded high levels of detail and prototypical accuracy combined with the latest technological advances, and were willing to pay accordingly for them. There is no question that Lionel is making a strong effort to meet the expectations of this segment of the marketplace. Before you naysayers and nitpickers chime in here, please look at the BIG picture.

 

Now the area of the funnel (ie. marketplace) that Lionel seems to have not yet addressed, is the middle. That is the part of the market consisting of those among us who are ready to move up from entry level trains, who do not have the room for (or the inclination to build) mega layouts, who are not of the financial means to buy locomotives in the $800 and up range, or are serious hobbyists with more modest means and resources. This is a part of the market that i think Lionel has missed. I firmly believe that modestly well detailed locomotives in the $200 to $500 range would appeal to a section of the market that is not currently being served. Perhaps ALL these engines could be offered in two ways: with basic TMCC and sound, and with the full blown features of Legacy; of course, in all instances they would run in a conventional environment.

 

As to the specifics of what locomotives, detail level, etc. to be offered is best left to the marketing department with their access to hard data, and not my opinion or wish list. As to offering with two levels of technology, that would be a minor issue easily solved by the engineering department.

 

jackson

In one sense I agree, the engines we are complaining about are very complex, the command systems in DCS and Legacy are not simple, there is a lot of horsepower in them, and the more complex you make it, the more likely it is to fail (as  Mr. Scott said in the third Star Trek movie, "The more you complicate the plumbing, the easier it is to stuff up the drain". The old conventional engines were rugged and reliable because they were so simple. Add the complexity to the way these things are manufactured and shipped, not surprising there are issues.

 

That said, the comment about "There must not be a single slaw anywhere in it!" is a bit harsh, to say the least. Expectations of quality on expensive products is pretty high, and when someone spends 1k or more on an engine, and it is DOA, it is quite frankly a lot more jarring then if it is some cheap 40 buck item. People talk about how expensive cars are these days, for example, but with modern cars the reliability and quality makes them a lot more of a bargain then their predecessors ever were, in terms of cost of maintenance and also how long you can run them.

 

Yes, these trains are in effect luxury items, we don't need them to live, but even with discretionary purchases we have expectations, and when someone charges you 1200 bucks for an engine and then you spend half your life getting it fixed, it doesn't sit well. Mercedes Benz ran into that with their cars, for years their cars, despite the price tag, had pretty horrible quality problems, and when Toyota and Nissan went upscale with Lexus and Infiniti, MB really ran scared, because it became apparent to luxury car buyers they had a choice, and MB has had to spend a lot of money and time on getting their products up to snuff (it is one of the reasons they bought Chrysler originally, believe it or not).

 

To be honest, the problem here is there is no Lexus or Infiniti to scare up change. It isn't that Lionel doesn't want to produce a quality product, it is given their current business model that the cost of quality (actually the cost of bad quality) isn't high enough that they will care about it; and given that from what I hear the rest aren't all that much better, and where a lot of the products can almost be considered semi custom given how few they produce and do so only with orders, no real incentive to tighten it up. BTW, this isn't a knock on Mike Regan and his people, from what I hear they really do care, it is just they are stuck with a model that makes their job more front and center then probably would be desired.

 

Thank-you, Alvin Toffler.

 

Quality Control first and last in importance.  Allan has a fine reply to this Topic.  Lionel is my reason for being in this hobby. I want them to be profitable, and be the leader in this hobby.  However, when you charge $1,000.00 on up for top of the line engines, it should work right out of the box.  Just my belief.

 

Many thanks,

 

Billy C

Okay, since we are talking what we wish (no matter how unrealistic).....

 

How about Lionel comes up with a track system that looks at the best features of the track systems out there and comes up with a new one? One that has the realism of scale trax or Atlas, decent sized ties, plate detail, good operating switches a la curtis, and brings it in where it is price attractive (somewhere between Gargraves on the low end and Atlas/Scale trax on the high end).

 

Not likely to happen, given how saturated the market is with track, but hey, if we are dreaming, what the heck)

I refuse to obcess about technology. 

 

If a model's got it, fine.  If not, also fine, as long as it runs smoothly and looks good.  I'm interested in the model itself.

 

Rusty

Traditional sized Legacy steam maybe a Pennsy B6.  Many of us do not have the space for an 072 or larger layout.

This statement makes absolutely no sense.  It essentially says they want to produce a quality product, but have chosen not to do so.    Can't have it both ways.

First and foremost, Lionel should recognize that many people who are still in this hobby after the economic downturn of the past 4 years are very discerning when it comes to spending what little discretionary income we have. It does not bode well for Lionel (and MTH, for that matter) when there are constant reports of out-of-the-box failures of their products on forums and in magazines. I've been through the "broken new train" experience too many times in the past and it definitely has influenced my buying decisions, or more precisely, my lack of buying. Additionally, technical difficulties with command control systems, and the seemingly constant upgrade of software, modules, whatever, in order to have a fully functioning system, doesn't help, either.

 

On a positive note, Christmas trains and accessories are still, even after all these years, what keeps me active and "young" in this hobby. I am glad Lionel continues to license the Polar Express from Warner Bros and hope to see the scale part of the PE line continue and expand (I am confident the traditional size PE train sets will continue). I believe the PE line is a "golden goose" for Lionel as evidenced that the film continues to be a holiday classic shown on Family Channels around the holidays and the fact that Lionel continues to release PE products 8 years after the movie's premier. I also enjoy that Lionel has expanded the PE concept with their own "Polar Railroad" and hope that line continues and expands as well.  I would like to see Lionel release a scale PE set with Legacy Berk, cars, and figures (by the way, elf figures are long over-due for this line). There's so many neat ideas for the PE/PR line that Lionel could undertake, and, with effective marketing they could all be winners.

 

 

 

 

I have the polar express that runs around our Christmas tree during the holiday and it's a great train.

 

I agree they ( Lionel ) should keep the Polar express and the polar RR in their inventory.

 

But for me I would like to see upgrades to their scale tooling and maybe some new tooling. In this economy I would not expect huge amounts of new tooling soon, it is expensive to make. I just want them to survive  and prosper for now and in the future.

chessie1971,

 

Agreed.  Tough to find anything associated with Chessie by Lionel that is prototypical.  MTH has nice offerings if you model Chessie.  99.9% of my holdings are MTH due to this fact.

A little QC for me but not too many issues.

 

More importantly for me:

 

Fixed Pilots

 

Kadee compatibility ..... its 2013, wake up, step up to the new world of scale equipment!

I would like to see a Vision Line version of the unstreamlined J3a Hudson, and a Vision or Legacy version of the Dreyfuss Hudson.

 

Besides those,  fully detailed Vision or Legacy models of smaller steam locomotives like the ten wheelers and even tank engines.

Now THAT is the best suggestion I've read so far! Count me, also.

I disagree with the complaints about quality control. It is philosophically impossible to complain about something that does not exist. My last tow Legacy diesels were shipped without Liondrive couplings. Once we realize we are buying locomotives without gears we understand. Not only is there no excuse, we have only ourselves to blame is we continue to accept that. My buying is on hold. Even if I decided to roll the dice again, the marketing gurus tell me there is "no room" to put whistle steam in the new locos. Please. Scrappy

I love how someone always tosses out the date like there was a memo sent out and some of us didn't get it. I don't care if it's 2013, the electronics break down too frequently and are obsolete in a few years forcing us to continually upgrade or repair them and at some point the system changes enough that we can't even upgrade the systems, PS1 comes to mind. My physics professor used to call it "Retarded Technology", using an expensive, complicated way to do something that can be done a lot cheaper and more easily and less prone to breakdowns the old way.

 

Jerry

A product line to compete with MTH's Railking Imperial line......Greg