Are you tired about when it comes to NEW lionel product

I disagree, because similar decisions probably occur regularly in many companies.  Along the way there is some engineer, accountant, risk management lawyer, senior executive, and major investor that have "run the numbers" and made an informed decision.  Based upon their sales/inventory/service/warranty data companies can accurately estimate how many of a particular item/SKU will fail or require service.  For example, a company estimates a 15% problem rate for item "A".  Historical data also indicates that only 40% of affected customers will file a warranty/service claim.  While the remaining 60% either fix the problem themselves or do nothing.  With 40% of product "A" customers filing warranty/services claims the company effective failure rate drops from 15% to 6% (40% x 15%).  The company budgets for the anticipated 6% in related item warranty costs.

 

The company also knows the cost required in the supply/production/QC/shipping chain to obtain an initial product failure rate less than or equal to the net 6% claim they currently see.  That cost related to improving the quality control within supply/production etc. is greater than the company's current business model with a  15% estimated failure rate.  Because it is less costly and often at the risk of losing existing customers, a company will accept a higher initial product failure rate rather than spend the time and money to improve their product at the point of manufacturing.   A company following this QC/cost pattern will not change until either the warranty claims consistently exceed estimates and/or as Eliot and others posted, customers take their business elsewhere.  Obviously, a model train company would be greatly weakened financially if they experienced increased warranty/service claims AND subsequent decrease in sales.  Hopefully senior mgmt. can timely recognize these shifts and the opportunity costs associated with an alienated customer base before the related financial strain can no longer be tolerated.

Agree with Q.C. More overseas factory testing of every engine as humanly possible before being boxed up! That said i have bought four legacy engines and all have worked as advertised. More small stream engines that can work on 036 radius with all the legacy features and wireless teathers! Keep the crew talk and sequence control in the legacy product line. That great slow speed and lionel quillable whistle is what sets lionel models apart from the other guys and keep me comming back for more!! Revisit all ready done small steam such as More ten wheelers, the 6-28038 2-8-0 consolidations with vandy tenders in legacy. The 060 steam engine with tmcc and electrcouplers. The 2-6-0 moguls with legacy. More scale hudsons with legacy. Love the new mikados you could keep doing more road names. More lionmaster steam also! cab forward and j3a hudson!! More geeps,sd40's and geep35's in more road names. Plus more operating acc with tmcc built in. More fasttrack tmcc switches. #4 and #6 and #100 with the right crossover section and small pieces of straight track to make a double crossover possible!! Even curved switches at some point. With the IR track comming soon please don't limit the switches in the fasttrack line too just a few. building realistic layouts and track plans would then be useless! Also please lionel make a steel sided caboose with rear cupola in many road names. Like the models from mth that are now hard to find or not availible such as MKT,burlington route,mopac ect. !! Always keep the operator in mined. The new starter sets with new remotes are fine and bullet proof for kids and newcomers to the hobby, but dont underestimate them either. They will get more involved in this wonderful hobby if they can exsperiance more bell and whistles out of the box. not just watch the train chase its tail around the oval of track.some people outside this hobby think when you talk toy trains all they do is go around in a circle! they say to me Don't you find that boring! Keep the Starter sets comming with the new remotes or even a cab1 light ready engine set with basic tmcc and cruise would be great because you can use virtually every thing in the set when you get more involved in the hobby. Plus it also appeals to hobbiest who cant spend 1000 or more on scale engines or power supplies. This is a great Economical way to add engines and rolling stock to the layout with out braking the bank! Also mid level Sets such as scale engines with cab1 lite tmcc and cruise or sets with scale legacy geeps or small legacy steam with a few scale cars. Priced at around or under$500 would be great for the exspanding mid level hobbiest. the fastrack and cw80 could be included or if cost is an issue at this price point these items could be left out. Last but not least always keep paying Mike R.,jon z, rudy trubit ,tom nuzzio and jaydon!! As long as they want to stay with lionel. I personally feel these gentlemen make lionel what it is today and with out them lionel would not be where it is now! They would make joshua cowen proud of the tremendous innovations and customer service they provide the hobbiest on behalf of the lionel family and brand! I Hope lionel is going strong well into 2020 and beyond!! Can't wait till retirement age and see what my trains can do then! I never dreamt my marx train set as a kid would turn into this. WOW! Thanks for listening to us jerry! Don't be like carribian cruses and lose control of the ship! Keep up the great effort to make lionel trains an affordable,easy to use,fun and ever expanding wonderful hobby that it is!!

Lou, great question. I enjoy in particular scale steam locomotives.  They do not have to be all large articulated locos, I like the smaller ones too.  I like them to have the legacy control system and the bells and whistles.  I understand the manufacturing need to use existing tooling for both savings and for those who may not have purchased a great locomotive in the earlier run.  I would like to see maybe 1 or 2 new sets of tooling per year for a steam and say diesel items.  Some of the items I would like to see on the locomotives include:

 

- Steam whistle effects

 - moving bell

 - blow down and dynamo effects

 - Original crew talk effects with engine number or passenger announcements (I like the originality of the engineer calling out the engine number and the road name).

 

Some locomotives I would love to see done include:

 

- Allegheny with new effects as listed above

 - PRR I1 decapod (new tooling - maybe use existing tender tooling)

 - 2-10-2 pennsy and santa fe, plus others have used this config

 - New detailed hudson and dreyfuss

 - H-9 consolidation, many road names - this is the more stubby config with the big boiler and tight wheel arrangement.

- C and O Greenbrier

 - Pennsy Q1 or Q2

 - Updated Pennsy Turbine with new Vision line type of features and sounds.

 - N & W Class A and Y6b with updated features and then some.

 

Although I do not do diesels that often a couple of interest to me are:

 

- NYC F3/F7 in lightning stripe.  Some have been done, but all gone

- Pere Marquette E7 that was cancelled a while ago.

 

Also would like to see Diner cars back with sounds.  I do love those TMCC diners with station sounds.  I have many friends that would like to see them back as well.

 

Just a few of my interests and features I would like to see.

Greg, you are supposed to be on vacation!  Shut down the **** laptop and take the kids back to Majic Kingdom!!!

 

(or maybe to my horror, you are actually there and playing on the OGR Forum while they are riding rides!)

 

 

Only thing missing from your list is a New Pennsy T1...  And pass cars too!

In the past 10 years Lionel has released several great O scale Chessie System Covered Hoppers. The type of Covered Hopper left to be produced are the B&O, C&O, WM ACF Center Flow Cylindrical 3-Bay Covered Hoppers and the later teardrop shaped ACF Center Flow 3-bay Covered Hoppers in B&O and C&O.

 

The next items that Lionel has to have made for Chessie System are the modern, 100-Ton, Three-Bay, Open-Top Hoppers with coal loads.

B&O   

C&O   

WM 

Both types.

Standard O plastic body

Standard O Scale die-cast metal body

 

C&O Chessie System Pullman-Standard 60' Single-door Auto Parts Boxcar

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

If anybody asks for The SD40-2 and GP35 diesels to be made in more roadnames, in this time period in the hobby you have to include a photo of a specific SD40-2 and GP35. Since you did not do that, the road name is a random choice. I choose Soo Line for everyone.

 

SOO LINE SD40-2 #6623

 

 

SOO LINE GP35 #730 at Stevens Point, WI

 

 

That settles the debate, more Soo Line locomotives.

 

Andrew

Yes Soo Line (please with the correct lettering!!! not like on the SD60).

 

I also want:

 

'The Rock' (Blue and White Scheme)

DT&I

Grand Trunk (Blue and Orange)

Ann Arbor (Orange)

Burlington (red and Grey scheme)

 

 

More of the Vision Line features/electronics  I.E smoke effects/bell put in all the Legacy Engines.

 

 

 

 

But if they dont fit they dont fit.

Some very interesting replies to Lou's questions.  As expected, most replies are contoured to whatever stage or product line of the hobby they are participating.  Which only proves that it'd be impossible for Lionel to make everyone happy, but they'll have a wide range of ideas at least.

 

What I'd like to see:

 

*Quality can always be improved, so that should be Lionel's, and any manufacturer's, priority since their products reflect on the company.  Regardless of what the bean counters suggest.  I myself haven't experienced many quality problems, except for the "A" word (Acela).  But admittedly I have some locomotives that haven't been on the track yet as I build and rebuild (and rebuild) my layout.  So we'll see what the future holds on those trains.

 

*All scale locomotives should include all the recent technologies.  Not just in some and not others.  If the parts do not fit, make the engines so they do fit!

  -N&W J

  -N&W A

  -PRR 2-10-2 N1s

 

*More 21” Passenger Sets: 

-Amfleet 

-Amtrak Viewliner Sleeper & Diner 

-Amtrak Bi-Level sets w/ Full Dome car

-Santa Fe Bi-Level sets w/ Full Dome car

-Penn Central

*Reading Crusader scale full set w/ 21" cars

 

*Amtrak HHP-8 scale w/Legacy 

 

*Scale Metroliners:

PRR, Penn Central, Amtrak

 

Dear Lionel: Your "Conventional Classics" line is a big hit.  The trains are fairly simplistic, nearly as good, as good, or even better, in some cases, than the originals.  These are fairly affordably priced, too.  Keep this going - I'll spend my money on this stuff, especially when it's a limited-run like the C&O Sears set.  I'm frustrated, however, with what's in the rest of your catalog.  I don't have the space for O72 curves - many of your engines are too big.  Speaking of engines, I have a question for you: am I buying a computer-on-wheels, that will dramatically diminish in value in a few years, or am I buying the heirloom-quality trains your firm is known for?  Investing in computers is a money-losing proposition, and a model train is not a big screen TV or other appliance, at least to me.  I want heirloom quality.  Lose the electronic junk that will inevitably break down long after you've stopped producing them.  Oh, and Lionel, why do you offer such cool stuff like lift bridges and rocket launchers, only for them to be discontinued a short time later?  If I buy these neat accessories and they break, can you still fix them, or will I be forced to buy another throw-away?  I'd appreciate it if your company could decide to keep the mainstays like bridges and other items around for a while, including their parts and computer chips, if so-equipped.  Thank you!  -Scott in St. Louis

I ASKED FOR METROLINERS AND GOT POO POOD AND THE OTHER AMTRAK ITEMS.how about the new sprinter locomotive and a p-42

It would be great if Lionel could get better Quality Control of their products. I have had several engines that I have had issues with. I pray that they don't have anymore. I had recent problems with my SD70ace and my gp7, also my Lionmaster that Lionel could never get right. I finally sent it to Trainz in Buford GA and they fixed it with no more problems.

It seems there is a strong trend towards more and more scale items.  While this may be more profitable and have broad appeal on this forum, I hear lots of people I know looking for more traditional size locomotives and cars.   The PW era had some great steam locomotives that are still solid runners today; but the re-issue versions have been problematic due to changes from the original design.  I would like to see some truly NEW postwar (conventional) style locomotives that are durable and pull like beasts.  There could be a plug in for easy electronic upgrades for those who want them, but keep to the basics that made the PW locomotives so bullet proof.  Please do not re-issue more and more of what we have already seen before.  And... changing the roadname doesn't count.

I also want to add, that I would like to see the fantasy engines and rolling stock continue as I prefer the color, fun and diversity that these items bring.  I like to bring some imagination into my layout and rolling stock.

HEY LIONEL...

https://ogrforum.com/d...nt/14804764773308471

 

Jerry

You got it! Having to upgrade every couple of years is bad enough for cell phones and computers, but why should I have to do it with my trains????

I don't see why Lionel, or anybody else out there can't make a mechanical E-unit anymore. Seems a shame that the much looked down on MPC era trains are still running and brand new stuff doesn't work out of the box.

I don't use all the electronic features they have now.  I run conventionally.  I will admit that the latest Legacy electronics, with the changes they've made in step rates and otherwise to the Legacy electronics, seem to also make the most recent Legacy locos run much better than past iterations in conventional, and Odyssey II cruise is just much, much better than the first generation. 

 

But everything else is wasted on me - crewtalk, etc., - nonsense - as long as the loco goes nice and slow smoothly, and responds to the transformer throttle, I'm happy.  Whistle smoke - fun, but I use it once of twice. More control over sounds - I have a volume control - enough. 

 

Overall, I am very pleased with Lionel's most recent offerings and plan to continue to buy what I imagine will be the last generation of their products I get.  What I would like and what could change that for me is animation - locomotive engineers that raise their hand to wave goodbye as the train starts out, or move to push the thorttle, conductors that move when the cars stop, waitresses and move up and down the iasles in the dinner cars, etc.   That would be nice.

I know we are not supposed to complain about pricing, but I am tired of the only available separate sale engines being over $500 scale items. I miss when there were traditional sized engines for sale this way.

 

I am still fearful of this new remote system as well.

I'll start off by saying that I love Lionel.  My family and I have purchased Lionel products almost exclusively since I've been in this hobby as a kid in the 80's.  Now my only problem with Lionel is their tendency to mess up basic things.  Or if they get something right, they will then mess it up in later releases.

 

Take for example the SD40-2 model.  When it 1st came out, it was great looking.  I bought the Soo & CP Rail versions.  I know a lot of people complained about truck-spacing, but that didn't bother me as the overall look & detail was great.  What did bother me was the 3rd release of this engine, when they switched to a new drive system.  The redesign of the trucks caused the ride height & pilot gap to get way out of control.

 

Same goes for the GP30 model.  I thought this was one of the nicest models in 3-rail.  For many releases it went on being great.  It survived the truck-redesign, and the addition of legacy.  Then in this latest release, Lionel suddenly started messed it up the rear end.  Whatever they did caused the rear pilot to stick way out and look completely silly.

 

And as someone mentioned, the "SOO" on the side of the SD60 was just a pure careless oversight.  It really looks silly.

 

Sometimes I just feel like don't really care all that much about making really nice model trains.

 

PS: Lionel, fix the rear pilot problem and release a Soo Line GP30 with the correct Alco Trucks.  There are a million pics of the 700 after it's restoration at the Lake Superior Train Museum.

 

 

Huh.. Well, I guess in that case I own a ton of faberge eggs..  I have no less than 127 Lionel engines that are 40, 50, 70 years old that still run as new.  These were passed down from family mostly.   And worth a lot more than their original selling price.  Landfill items?  Hardly!

Ok, I'll bite.

 

I am tired about the graphics mistakes (CP GP35, pac man mistake, Soo Line SD60 lettering, Wrong SP logo on nose of the DD35, NS SD80 missing white on cab, Every NS engine logo is messed up in some way, Black painted roof (not orange) on the BNSF swoosh SD70Ace, I could go on and on)...  Basic stuff is lettering and color.  Simple attention to detail.  Just make it like the real train.

 

The thing that is driving me nuts as of late is the longer couplers being added to the scale trucks on the scale cars.  This is driving me nuts.  There are three lengths of coupler shanks.  Lately they have been putting on extra long ones!

 

My last purchase Frisco 100ton coal hopper came with the extra long coupler.  It barely fit in the box.  This car should have the short coupler shank.  It is reduculous when new cars have to have the trucks changed out to match all the previous cars of that type.  I have had to change trucks on about 8 new cars.

 

All the recent PS1's came with the wrong (too long) coupler length.  These cars should use the short coupler length.  The result is a HUGE gap between freight cars in the train and it looks totally stupid.  Besides Lionel, you have been doing these cars correctly for 10 years with the short length.  Howcome it is wrong now?  ATTENTION TO DETAIL.

 

The recent non powered GP30's came with rediculously long couplers, I had to sell my preordered SF GP30 dummy cause it looked so stupid with these long couplers sticking out.

 

This hobby is about attention to detail.  It is the details that we buy, and the details we try very hard to put in our layouts.  Detail, Detail Detail!!!!  So please simply letter the trains right and put the right couplers on the cars.

 

Lionel, that is my biggest complaint since you asked.

 

 

 

 

 

I have seen improvement in the last year on the colors used.  Correct CSX colors on the SD80 (not like the CSX genset), so I am happy about that.

 

 

I don't run TMCC, DCS or  Legacy as I am not convinced of the long term reliabilty of that type of equipment. However, IF Lionel started making remote control equipment that is easily repairable I would move in that direction. What would make an engine easily repairable?  If the electronics were designed as plug in modules with simple onboard diagnostics. This way if a board went out, you just plug a new board in and you're back in the game. Until that day comes I keep it simple and never experience a reliability issue.

I also noticed that both MTH and Lionel really cut back on operating accessories. If they took what they have and put them in scale realistic looking enclosures, then I would buy these.

Something I am a bit tired of is the relentless running up on prices. Something i have been following for a few years is the packs of cars and track marketed to add to sets for newbys. When they started they were to copete with Kline who had something similar. When Kline was around every year these would change . This year is the first time Linel has changed them in several years. The early ones ten years ago have the price $109 printed on the boxes and now they cost$160. 50% + up in10 years. Im a bit over the price increase with noreal reason.

more double stacks and unit train sets.  LOCOMOTION

+1

How much is too much and when does more than enough jump the gun? The comments here answer much of this and were essentially the reason I migrated to the peaceful waters of conventional and tinplate several years ago. There seems to be a disconnect between decreasing quality and more sophisticated toy trains. Another issue was the advent of PS2 and I thought to myself, "I just bought something that will be more and more obsolete in terms of being usable or repairable in the future compared to basic DC or AC operation and design."

Anytime I make an investment in having fun with what little discretionary spending I do have and then have to face the prospect of spending more money in the future for replacements for obsolete electronics, or new equipment to replace random duds, I pass as a pragmatic matter.

 

This is not a swipe at those who prefer the complexity of recent stuff and who can afford it, rather I see a sort of backlash when quality and sophistication are at a loggerhead and to get a good product is a matter of chance. That was good enough reason for myself to bail from watching this accident happen from the sidelines some time ago. There's a limit to anything, and the toy makers don't seem to grasp this. Call it just another economic bubble that's ripe to burst.

I don't use all the electronics and gadgets availalbe in my car, either, but I don't mind their being there, of course, and sometimes play with them, just to learn. However, what I do expect - require - is that every and any time I get into my vehicle, it will run. No vehicle gets to pull being inoperative on me more than once, and I am willing to pay for that assurance. I certainly will not buy another one just for nostalgia sake and take a chance again. Nope. No way. Not ever again.

 

When I buy a locomotive and it does not run right out of the box, eventually, I've had enough of that manufacturer. You don't have to beat me up too many times to get me to avoid you. Eventually - and it did not take long - I did get tired of the disappointments and stopped buying altogether. Period. (I was getting the distinct impression somebody out there in The Land of Commercialism was laughing at me for continuing to plunk down a thousand+ for locomotives that just kept staring back at me, unmoving.)

 

Now, somebody might say I shouldn't compare locomotives with cars. Oh yes, I can, because both represent an amount of money from me that deserves certain expectations, given their proportion in my personal budget for such items, and in both cases, I expect - require - them to move. Dependably. All the time - right out of the showroom or right out of the box.

FrankM

 

I suppose for the sake of clarity I should have said, "More no-frills locomotives in the $150-$250 price range, please... even though I'm fully aware Williams makes such products". This thread is about Lionel's offerings, and if they had a few more options in that portion of the market, I'd certainly be opening my wallet more often.

QC, and "Made In USA". I just can't buy Lionel made overseas. Fourtunialty there has been plenty that was made here over the years, so I'm good.