Good Scoop!
Chief Bob (Retired)
Originally Posted by rail:
Originally Posted by chessie1971:
Don how do you know they were. You guys seem like you know it all. I called MTH and they said they was not made by them anymore and Joe told me they had there own tooling is what the man said.
As I mentioned before, Weaver did have their own tooling for trucks, but lost their China connection,so,Joe made arrangements with Mike Wolfe to have the trucks made by the same manufacturer MTH used. You have to remember that what is in China is stuck in China. Therefore, if anyone wants to manufacture any Weaver products, ie, the Bettendorf Trucks, the H30 Hopper, or the B&O Wagon Tops, which were made in China, will still be made in China. Weaver Brass locos were made in China, along with the structures, and probably the telephone poles.
I have known Joe for many years, having dealt with him and most of the staff on club car projects, and supplying various loads for hoppers and gondolas. I have been to the facility countless times, and even have Joe's personal cell phone number. Possibly, whoever you talked to at MTH either had no knowledge of the relationship Joe had with MTH regarding the trucks, or was not at liberty to disclose that information.
I also Know Mike Wolfe fairly well, and many of the MTH staff, and have been there several times. I was in Mike's office several years ago when he was in contact with Lionel, Atlas and several other major manufacturers when he was trying to get everyone to do just one show at York because of the economic downturn around 2009. I just happened to be at the right place at the right time. There have been many instances that I have withheld the above mentioned information because I was asked not to say anything. I, unlike many so called high ranking persons who leak information under the condition of anonymity, honor these requests. Quite honestly, I was surprised about this recent announcement of Atlas purchasing Weaver tooling, as Joe told me that Lionel had purchased tooling. Either Lionel only bought only a certain
amount, or backed out of the deal. I'll let this all play out, as I'm not going to bother Joe just for curiosity's sake.
Don
Don, that is very interesting. Thank you for the explanation.
I just hope that someday someone will make the Weaver trucks again in 2 rail and 3 rail because there are a lot of Weaver cars out there and sometimes I can only find a car in 3 rail so I need 2 rail trucks and I'm sure the reverse happens out there to some 3 railers. Atlas will probably change the mounting system on the tooling for the cars they got so that their trucks work with those cars instead of Weaver trucks.
Thanks Don clearing that up!
It's good to hear Weaver products will return as Lionel, but what will happen with the prices.
Jack
Originally Posted by Dr. Jack:
It's good to hear Weaver products will return as Lionel, but what will happen with the prices.
Jack
Yow KNOW what WILL happen with the prices.
Chief Bob (Retired)
Great news!
Peter
Very good news!
Thank you for the information!
Originally Posted by joeyA:
Originally Posted by Richard Gonzales:
Adding the Weaver RS 3 , the RSD4 / 5 and RSD 11 / 12 to the Masters like would also be a great addition to Atlas O.
Richard, the molds for the Weaver RS3 and RSD4/5 were not part of the Atlas purchase according to the announcement above. That makes sense if you think about it as Atlas already has produced (imported) these engines in their Trainman line.
That may open the door for Lionel to purchase the Weaver ALCo RS3 and RSD4&5 molds and then offer scale-sized, highly-detailed Legacy versions of these engines. This would be a great opportunity for Lionel to make a substantial upgrade to their current Traditional-line (and very toy-like!!) ALCo RS3 model. At least that's what I'm hoping for anyway!!
Joe,
Yep, I noticed that when I re read the post. I never got around to purchasing a Weaver RS 3, 4/5 or an 11 /12. If Lionel has this tooling I hope they can produce these engines.
Richard
I'm glad to hear this but a bit confused. It's been widely believed that MTH acquired the tooling for the Weaver U25B and VO-1000 and that these were modified by MTH to make their versions of the two locomotives. Weaver did not produce any U25B or VO-1000 locomotives after MTH came out with theirs, adding to the presumption that the molds were the same. I've personally had the Weaver and MTH VO-1000 bodies in hand, and while there are differences in the mounting that prevent a straight body swap, it is certainly plausible that the MTH body is made from the same mold, just with some modifications. The basic structure and external detailing appear to be identical, just some differences in how the body connects to the frame.
Comments, clarifications? Could it be that Weaver retained ownership of the molds and only leased them to MTH? Or is the widely held story that the MTH U25B and VO-1000 used modified Weaver tooling just an urban legend?
Jus glad somebody finally did something with the maxi IV and 53ft containers, now if we could some csx and JB Hunts with the trailer chassis would be so awesome...
Talk about a lot of great news in one press release. Time to get my orders ready!!!
Originally Posted by sinclair:
Where did the tank car tooling go off to? I've been wanting to get the Sinclair tank cars, but never had the money when they were offered.
I don't know about the tooling, but check The Public Delivery Track for the cars. Beth shows them in stock on her website.
There are other Central Vermont and Duluth, Winnipeg & Pacific paint schemes to put on the ALCo RS-11. The CV bright green & bright yellow scheme. The DW&P red body scheme. The DW&P Black body and red ends scheme. The RS-11s moved between CV and DW&P.
The Soo Line had only one V-1000. It was a very basic scheme. Would that ever be included in a production run?
Andrew
They need to make complete Maintenance of Way train sets now that the Troop Sleeper and Kitchen cars are added to the production line.
Andrew
It is going to be interesting to see the products and pricing from both Atlas and Lionel. Lionel has the American line, and will supposedly be manufacturing in the US. Atlas has the tooling in the orient. One interesting aspect that occurred to me when someone mentioned the TOFC line is that the flat cars are US made, but the trailers were produced in China. Lionel would most likely have to use its own tooling to produce trailers should it reintroduce the TOFC line.
I think Atlas will be the first to put product to market, as Lionel has to set up the manufacturing facility in NC, whereas everything is in place in China. Unless Atlas would have to move the tooling over there. The press release didn't mention anything about the truck tooling, so that will be another interesting aspect. It will also be interesting to see if Atlas does anything with the steam program, having produced only one engine in the past.
Don
Following marketing trends, I converted several remaining Weaver cars to die cast T&C’s years ago. With the long shortage experienced a few years back, I grabbed the die cast T&C’s when they were finally available again.
All the other Weavers were LD cars already. None of this affects me as I have everything required to satisfy the fallen flags railroads.
Being in the production and R&D consumer business over 30 years, I learned how to play the game in how overseas companies control us.
My only interest going forward in O is new tooling of freight cars.
O scale could still use additional rolling stock models like HO has to complete the mix.
Other than that, I’m done collecting rolling stock.
As for others, I’m glad to see the Weaver products continue on. I just hope the prices will not be increased. If so, with the attrition of O scale, it will be a questionable decision by the remaining companies.
Good luck!
With regard as to why the trucks are important, a lot of us amateurs as well as Brother
Love who builds the great cabooses, and many others who can't buy commercially rolling stock they want, use a lot of these or any trucks they can get their hands on. These were cost effective...not the price of an Atlas car or more as are some brass "O scale" trucks (and neediing wheelsets changed out) , and even others from the big two, and they dried up before Weaver ceased. The low cost plastic archbars from Lionel had dried up before the Weaver's. As others above, I bought Weaver trucks, especially archbars, anywhere I could find them, but dealers, they too, drying up, shutting doors, only seemed to carry a few at a time.
I, too, hope the Weaver 2-8-0 reappears in western roadnames.
I would hope that one of the remaining train manufactures acquires the Weaver wood chip hopper cars.
Bill T.
Well, the tooling is going to a great company that manufactures the 2nd best "Wow Products". Maybe there will be steam engines made in 3-Rail by Atlas.
Were the Weaver wood chip hoppers USA made. I would like to see someone make another run of those because I am having a difficult time locating any.
Yes I wpuld like to see them made again. I have managed to find 8 different ones so far. Lionel is making one, a western Maryland. Two if you count one in a ready to run set. If Lionel bought the USA tooling they may have been included in their deal. Seems Atlas got some of the off shore tooling but no mention of the wood chip hoppers....Paul
Originally Posted by Richard Gonzales:
Originally Posted by joeyA:
Originally Posted by Richard Gonzales:
Adding the Weaver RS 3 , the RSD4 / 5 and RSD 11 / 12 to the Masters like would also be a great addition to Atlas O.
Richard, the molds for the Weaver RS3 and RSD4/5 were not part of the Atlas purchase according to the announcement above. That makes sense if you think about it as Atlas already has produced (imported) these engines in their Trainman line.
That may open the door for Lionel to purchase the Weaver ALCo RS3 and RSD4&5 molds and then offer scale-sized, highly-detailed Legacy versions of these engines. This would be a great opportunity for Lionel to make a substantial upgrade to their current Traditional-line (and very toy-like!!) ALCo RS3 model. At least that's what I'm hoping for anyway!!
Joe,
Yep, I noticed that when I re read the post. I never got around to purchasing a Weaver RS 3, 4/5 or an 11 /12. If Lionel has this tooling I hope they can produce these engines.
Richard
I don't see Lionel producing the Weaver RS-3 when they already have the K-Line RS-3.
Stuart
Was never able to find any WC cars. They never reached full production.
I would consider having Weavers re-issued wood chip cars however…
Never crazy about their 2 bay hoppers, reminded me of those old Right Of Way Industries hoppers with the chunky details.
The top add on frame looks to be a quick n dirty solution in making a wood chip car.
I would much rather have the one in the photo.
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Originally Posted by Stuart:
Originally Posted by Richard Gonzales:
Originally Posted by joeyA:
Originally Posted by Richard Gonzales:
Adding the Weaver RS 3 , the RSD4 / 5 and RSD 11 / 12 to the Masters like would also be a great addition to Atlas O.
Richard, the molds for the Weaver RS3 and RSD4/5 were not part of the Atlas purchase according to the announcement above. That makes sense if you think about it as Atlas already has produced (imported) these engines in their Trainman line.That may open the door for Lionel to purchase the Weaver ALCo RS3 and RSD4&5 molds and then offer scale-sized, highly-detailed Legacy versions of these engines. This would be a great opportunity for Lionel to make a substantial upgrade to their current Traditional-line (and very toy-like!!) ALCo RS3 model. At least that's what I'm hoping for anyway!!
Yep, I noticed that when I re read the post. I never got around to purchasing a Weaver RS 3, 4/5 or an 11 /12. If Lionel has this tooling I hope they can produce these engines.
Richard
I don't see Lionel producing the Weaver RS-3 when they already have the K-Line RS-3.
Stuart
Stuart, Lionel doesn't have the former K-Line RS3 tooling, Williams by Bachmann does.
For my likes and needs the Weaver flat cars and gondolas were some of their finest work, Sad they were not listed as tooling acquired by Atlas.
Yes, good news.
1 - I presume that Atlas will make most of it's initial "Weaver profits" by simply marketing new underbody kits for the Troop Cars....with plastic visible details attached to a plain steel floor. Invisible cast-in underbody detail is just that: invisible.
2- Atlas offered one scale steam loco - a USRA 0-6-0 switcher - that functioned so badly as a switcher that I sold it...the drivers' counterweights were inaccurate...the tether would fall out...a part (I forget what) fell off...
So - if they go die-cast scale steam 2-8-0's, let's hope that they stick with un-modified Weaver plans, and are inspired by those in any future new designs.
Originally Posted by joeyA:
Originally Posted by Stuart:
Originally Posted by Richard Gonzales:
Originally Posted by joeyA:
Originally Posted by Richard Gonzales:
Adding the Weaver RS 3 , the RSD4 / 5 and RSD 11 / 12 to the Masters like would also be a great addition to Atlas O.
Richard, the molds for the Weaver RS3 and RSD4/5 were not part of the Atlas purchase according to the announcement above. That makes sense if you think about it as Atlas already has produced (imported) these engines in their Trainman line.That may open the door for Lionel to purchase the Weaver ALCo RS3 and RSD4&5 molds and then offer scale-sized, highly-detailed Legacy versions of these engines. This would be a great opportunity for Lionel to make a substantial upgrade to their current Traditional-line (and very toy-like!!) ALCo RS3 model. At least that's what I'm hoping for anyway!!
Yep, I noticed that when I re read the post. I never got around to purchasing a Weaver RS 3, 4/5 or an 11 /12. If Lionel has this tooling I hope they can produce these engines.
Richard
I don't see Lionel producing the Weaver RS-3 when they already have the K-Line RS-3.
Stuart
Stuart, Lionel doesn't have the former K-Line RS3 tooling, Williams by Bachmann does.
OOPS! My bad!
Stuart
I have a friend that was waiting for the troop cars. Hopefully some day he will be able to get them.
Congrats to Atlas I wish them well in this endeavor.
But their price structure is out of my comfort range so secondary market for Weaver for me....although I have not bought a O scale train car of any kind in months....I think I beat my habit......after all I have 100's already!
Originally Posted by SIRT:
Was never able to find any WC cars. They never reached full production.
I would consider having Weavers re-issued wood chip cars however…
Never crazy about their 2 bay hoppers, reminded me of those old Right Of Way Industries hoppers with the chunky details.
The top add on frame looks to be a quick n dirty solution in making a wood chip car.
I would much rather have the one in the photo.
The mod to make the wood chip hoppers was a very simple process. I got a kit from Joe when I was down for the final sale. I want to convert a two nay hopper to a wood chip car. I'll post some pics.
I would imagine Lionel may be interested in doing the wood chip cars again. They were very successful, and I was busy making loads for them. To answer Terrance's question, they were made in Northumberland.
Don
Originally Posted by L.I.TRAIN:
For my likes and needs the Weaver flat cars and gondolas were some of their finest work, Sad they were not listed as tooling acquired by Atlas.
Steve,
I believe the flats and gons are part of the Lionel acquisition. The wood side gons are some of my favorites. The TOFC's were very popular, but I'm surprised the weatherd 3 bay hopper on the 50 foot flat wasn't too successful. Joe also said the gons didn't meet expectations. The same thing happened with the gons done in the 90's.
Don
That's an interesting comment by Joe on thelow sided gons because the Prr versions are tough to find. However I can understand why they failed to develop interest as those cars are long gone. They were popular back in the early 1900's
I would have liked to see Atlas purchase the Roadrailers and GP 38 tooling.
The Roadilers would sell and the GPs with upgrades and proto-specific details could be done for 38 38-2 39 40 and 40-2 models.
The Roadilers would sell and the GPs with upgrades and proto-specific details could be done for 38 38-2 39 40 and 40-2 models.
Interesting EMD however the Weaver GP 38 is almost a solid mold and probably could not be done in a cost effective manner. A modular body design would most definitely work for your idea however that would be several new molds.
Great news! Still waiting for a Boston and Maine troop sleeper express car. AND THE SWITCHES!!
This is very good news!
Mike CT thanks for some interesting information. Unfortunately, the Atlas O trainman RS-3 is different than the Weaver RS-3. You can see the hood height difference at the cab area of the Trainman when compared to the Weaver RS-3. Plus the Trainman RS-3 has dual sealed beam headlights molded in at the ends whereas the Weaver RS-3 is a single beam headlight.
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Delighted to see a continuation of several of my Weaver favorites....
Does anyone know who purchased the tooling for the RPO and the PRR B60b's? And the B&O wagontop boxcars and PRR H-30 covered hoppers?
Ed
