Atlas announces F7A/B's

Yep. I ordered an ABBA in Rio Grande from 3rd rail, so it should be interesting to see how the hold up against each other. If Atlas doesn't upgrade their fuel tanks and considering 3rd rails full interior cab, horizontal drive and road specific details, I would say that the roughly $150 dollar difference is more than justifiable for 3rd rail. I just spent around $200 upgrading an Atlas F3 ABA to what seems to be 3rd Rail standards. Atlas F7's will be beautiful, and in time I'm sure Ill get some. But, for now I'd like to see how they respond to someone (3rd rail) actually making them come up with better and newer products in the RTR market.

I wonder how they will compare to P&D's?

From the Atlas website Catalog page F7 pricing.

$499.95 for Powered units

$219.95 for un-powered units. 

A-B both Powered.  $999.90 

A powered, B unpowered. $719.90 

All subject to dealer discounts.  

I see what you mean. I have no horizontal drives yet, so I'll have to form my opinion once I get to compare both drive systems head to head. The 2013 released F3's from Atlas came with a pretty high momentum setting out of the box, and their start speed is actually pretty decent.

I was always surprised that Atlas O started with the F2's and F3's rather than F7's.

Personally, one of things that drew me to 2R O (besides John Albee who then switched to S - Ha!), was the photos of an F unit on the A&O with full cab interior and lighted gauges (basically a modified P&D unit with interior). The "China" drives are, as Erik pointed out, a real killer since that cab should be visible and detailed in O. They certainly are now in HO (although Athearn Genesis screwed up their tooling and the cab interior sits too far back with that multi-foot "gap" between the front of the "dashboard" and the cab. I asked early in the rise of Genesis if they had plans to fix that; they answered "No.").

I think 3rd Rail is worth the money for the cab and horizontal drive. I saw an FL9 listed on ebay and I was surprised that some of the paint demarcation lines looked a bit sloppy (like I did them) but the FT's look really sharp. I would expect the F7's to be really a money-maker.

The exciting thing in the Atlas offerings is the return of the horizontal drive MP15DC. THAT is the engine to buy if you need a modern (post 1974) road switcher. The QSI sound was horrible in the early runs. I ripped it out and installed an HO ESU Loksound Select Direct decoder and two internal speakers in the shell and it made a world of difference in mine. Hopefully, Atlas will use a better speaker and the improved QSI Titan sound in this new lot.

Yes, Bill. The A&O units are amazing! I'm aiming at something of that level with an F3 ABA CB&Q from Atlas.

Your're right, 3rd rail's paint job was a bit sloppy a few years ago. As with the FT's, I hope the F7's will break that notion and "crisp clear" will become the standard.

Scott Mann posted this rendering of the upcoming F7's in different thread, I'll leave them here in case someone hasn't seen them.

From the Atlas catalog I'll be getting some MP15's (NS and undecorated), some 17,600gl tank cars and the CZ cars.

I agree that the 2-motor jet speed china block drive is for toy trains.    I have not had one yet that was a great runner.    All have been too fast and had very weak torque on the low end when creeping.   They also tend to start and stop with a jerk.

I have a pair of the GGD (sunset) E7s and FPs with the single motor horizontal drives and they are great.    They run smooth and have  a nice speed range.    they have reduction gearing so the the low end torque is decent too.    

I don't think I will buy any more of the two motor mechanisms.

They are re-making the Occidental tank cars. Yes!

Hmmm, DOD 68' flats too. I'll need more Abrams tanks for those.

 I like their MP15 switchers. They do use a horizontal motor. I'd have to swap out the DCC boards too. I did that in a Dash 8 of theirs and the slow speed performance is fine with me. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on a smaller MTH board set (S scale?) to fit inside. I have their older one with TMCC still inside.

They don't mention QSI.  Sunset could be a deal.  I'm really pleased with the QSI performance on the FT's.

It is nice to see Atlas getting aggressive again.  They once mentioned Santa Fe passenger cars at the time they were first announcing the CZ.  Are the Santa Fe F7's a hint of things to come?  Some Santa Fe Budd cars would be very nice.

I believe the Atlas F7s are also the P&D shells,its obiviously a good move for Atlas by the time they will have delieved the last announced 2 Cal Zep cars. their market will be ready for the F7 and based on delivery of these cars and motive power I believe the F7s are really a 2016 project. Sunset is clearly gaining market share in the 2 rail market motive power dept. Atlas sees MTH and Lionel as the competition [ie: don't expect to see any cosmetic improvements in the F7s]JMO

I think Atlas may have lost their 2R and possibly their 3RS market to the GGD F7's being delivered this year. Honestly, I wish GGD would have done all these horizontal drive diesels sooner and taken the 2R market completely away from Atlas years ago. Atlas took the most accurate O scale F unit shell ever and dumbed it down with a 3R drive and expected the 2R buyers to just accept it if they wanted a 2R RTR F unit.  

Had many polarized discussions online and off with the powers to be (JW) at Atlas back when they brought out the F2's and early F-3's. But, their focus was 3R (they told me this several times) and I think it will now cost them market share. 2R and 3RS modelers now have a much better choice for diesels, IMHO, than going with Atlas, which sit too tall out of the box, have an abbreviated cab interior (because of the vertical motor) and have issues with starting and running speeds.

I am so thrilled GGD has jumped into this market with both feet.

Butch  

I wish Atlas would run these in Santa Fe freight colors, or Blue Bonnents... something different.

Wow...more F units....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Obiviously down the road[3-4 years] Atlas will do several runs on their F7 units offering different paint schemes based I believe on dealer network feedback.

Need more southeastern lines. Atlas did the as-delivered black Southern F2/F3, and the passenger F3 (neither of which last more than 3 years in those schemes). Need 1950s era Southern Green, ACL Purple and SAL Pullman Green. 

Just wish it wasn't so expensive to create an ABBA, even using non-powered units.

I have no interest in the F units, Like Erik, were not around much as  when modeling. SD 40 s yes, however, Atlas only did did about 2 releases of the SD 40 and none of the -2s. How unfortunate. That was their market's advantage. I can remember trains with 3 to 6 engines all -2s.

Phil 

I don't think an FP-7 would be wise for Atlas.    I reserved purchased the Sunset GGD version and I talked to Bob Heil a number of times at shows about it.    It took them about 2 years to convince enough of us to buy them to make the run worth doing from a business point.   And at that I think they gambled and ran some for stock.   So another run so soon seems like it would bomb in the market place.

Sunset was looking at a run of about 1000 units I think to be able to maintain the cost/price point they were targeting.   I think that included both 2 and 3 rail.   

The current competition with both Atlas and Sunset announcing F7s should prove interesting.    MTH will probably jump in next!    Anyway, Atlas may be hoping/planning on brand loyalty to carry their sales.   I think that is much stronger in the 3-rail market than the 2-rail market.   It seems to me a lot of 3 railers stick to one or another mfg products.    In 2 rail, buyers seem to be more focused on fidelity to scale, and operational quality.

Really an SD40-2? How many do you need? With Weaver, MTH, and Lionel units already out there, A Dash 2 investment would be unwise. MTH has made and painted in many paint schemes as well!

http://mthtrains.com/search/ap...line%3A%22Premier%22

Atlas, MTH or Lionel needs to come up with a FP-7 version. 3rd Rail did one, but they were very limited and hard to find today.

I agree, esp the demo paint scheme and I am all in for the PRR Tuscan 5 stripe version. I can't find any PRR sunset versions anyware!

The current competition with both Atlas and Sunset announcing F7s should prove interesting.    MTH will probably jump in next! 

I am not sure what this means. MTH already did a run of F7's and I can't find the PRR units either!

http://mthtrains.com/search/apachesolr_search/f7

Actually from 2005 to 2009 Atlas did 5 runs of the SD-40 model in 29 paint schemes, from 2010 on factory issues have cut done drastically on diesel delivery of any model. The SD-40-2 would have to be a new model to accomadate the 3 sale ft[3/4 inch] longer frame. Sunset is more likely to produce this model before Atlas. One big advantage for Sunset and buyers is a 20 unit min on roadnames allowing as many as 20 +/- paint schemes in one run,something the big mfgs can not[will not] do.

WOW!  More F-Units....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At 274 A units and 74 B's, my NYC fleet (8 A's / 5 B's) is vastly dwarfed by the prototype; so keep'em coming!

Thanks,

- Mario

PS - Nevermind... They didn't do any NYC.

Just a thought here but, you don't suppose the reason Atlas announced F7 units for the Santa Fe was to handle the upcoming Golden Gate Depot El Capatan passenger set?

As nice as the 3rd rail F7's will be I can't afford to buy an ABA or ABBA AT $600 for each unit. I don't need 3 or 4 Powered units. 

With the faults that some have pointed out about the AtlasO F7's and F3's they still make a great F unit IMO for both two railers and 3rs guys. 

Or the Amtrak version of the Zephyr

With the faults that some have pointed out about the AtlasO F7's and F3's they still make a great F unit IMO for both two railers and 3rs guys. 

I pre-ordered a powered A/B set of the last run of Atlas F-3's which cost me a little over $900, less than the F-7's from Sunset for sure, but sometimes you have to look at the value and not just the cost.

Once they arrived and I saw how tall they rode (fairly simple fix---but a fix none the less), remembered my running experiences with previous vertical motored locos, looked at the trucks with the exposed gearing, saw the huge plastic shield in the cab to hide the motor and a few other issues........I sold them immediately.

As a 2Rer I don't want a warmed over 3R loco if I can get a purposely designed 2R loco for a little more money. It's a personal choice like many things in this hobby and I've waited for years to be able to vote with my $$$ on this one.  Thanks Scott!

Butch

Butch,

You are so right.  When one looks at all the improvements that Scott has made in response to what 2-railers want and then compare it to Atlas's record, Scott wins hands down.  Scott has responded and the product gets better and better every time.  Scott hit a home run with the F-7's and a grand slam with the SD-7/9's.  I am voting for Scott with my dollars.

Regards,

Ed

I asked one of the forum vendors to find out what "Sound Equipped" may be for the upcoming engines from Atlas in 2R. The answer I got back was, no decision has been made yet on what it's going to be used, so it may not be QSI.

Ken