ATLAS O F3 PHASE 2?

Hi Bob, 

Virtually every mfg of plastic F unit in the past couple of decades uses replaceable roof fans. They'll most likely be glued on, but can be changed out fairly easily with either plastic or brass replacements. P&D, Atlas, Lionel among others can supply all the different fans depending on stock.

The photo you show with low fans does look like a phase III  F-3 to me. The phase IV had the stainless grills like the F-7. Individual railroads made many changes to their F units during their lifetime, so it can be hard to pin down exactly what it was or is now.  The UP even has some F-9's built from F-3 and retained the chicken wire side screens. 

Butch

Thanks Butch!

Seaboard only had a small number of F3s and only 3 of them have the low profile fans, according to the photos.

To do this SAL unit I'd like to get an undecorated, unpowered, single headlight, model.  Then I'd have to get the fans, and the Power Gear Transfer Assembly, but I see no parts breakdown on their site to place an order.

Anyone know if the trucks are the same as the GP9 trucks?

Exhaust fans on an Atlas GP7. 

Bob, remember the Atlas tooling for the F unit came from P&D Hobby's tooling. So it's reasonable to think that both P&D and Red Caboose parts would fit an Atlas shell.

Thanks Mike and Chris!

I may try finding the P&D F3 kit and at least get the shell built, then worry about the chassis and drive train.  I doubt Atlas will offer a Phase3 but you never know.

Well...pulled the trigger and bought a MKT F3 (Atlas # 1647) off Ebay for $190 shipped.  Seller said Railsounds doesn't work but I'm going to convert it to BPRC anyway.

The P&D shell would have cost $100+, so for $90 more I get the chassis, trucks, and motors.  I figure I'm ahead at this point!

It's still a Phase 2, but Seaboard had a few of them so all is good.  Once I get it I can see if it's worth the effort to scrap off the chicken wire between the port holes (4030 has always been my favorite, cause I've seen photos of it in Portsmouth).

I already have the decals I think and the paint.

So, I might have some TMCC parts available soon.

The F3 and GP7 are the only diesels I desire to add to my collection.  I have an Atlas GP9 and there's only like 4 parts difference between it and their GP7 (I also have a Lionel GP9 so I'm not losing anything there either).

Hi Bob

Perhaps you've already done so, but you may want to reconfirm the style and placement of the long hood louvers on the SAL GP7/9's.  On PRR GP's they were different.  Another difference between GP7's and GP9's was the type of vertical handrail posts.  GP7's used round pipe posts and GP9's formed channel posts.  Several early O scale models (Lionel and US Hobbies) incorrectly used the absence or presence of  dynamic brake blisters to ID the model number.  GP7's and GP9's could be ordered with or without dynamic brakes.

  I enjoy reading your SAL modelling posts - please continue to share your work with us.

Bob,    Not sure what they have these days, but once upon a time you could build about any F except the Santa Fe's (they didn't have the correct pilot) with parts from P&D. They offered beautiful brass Blomberg trucks and are the genesis of the Atlas units. Pat Mucci is a very nice person to deal with if you decide to go that route.

Take Care,

Simon

PS: Last hi fans are phase 2

That locomotive has been upgraded at least once.  The vertical louvers are the giveaway.  All the louvers were horizontal for at least the first year or so of F7 production.  All later F3s and early F7s had horizontal louvers.

So how it was delivered would be dependent on when it was built.

Thanks Ed, I was basing my comment on the actual part numbers from the Atlas site, I'll recheck them.

Simon, just talked to Pat yesterday (placed an order for some PSC parts).  This F3 thing came up later and I felt the $190 price was too good to pass up.

Richard, I haven't found anything that indicates 4030 was ever upgraded/modified, but I'll keep looking.  here's another view:

and 4031:

If I have to I'll do 4027, it has the high fans and chicken wire at the port holes:

Of course Seaboard seemed to love the angle iron step and extra handgrabs on the fireman's side, so that needs to be added.

Anybody know if the chicken wire around the port holes is removable?  I can't exactly tell from the photos, but it does look like they're separate pieces.

If the Atlas is indeed a P&D copy the vents between the portholes come out.

I found the attached chart on the different phases of the F2/F3 a while back.  It may be useful to you in this discussion. 

The Pennsylvania Railroad bought their first F3s in 1947, the "Phase 2 Early" version.  This is the one Atlas produced but they have yet to release a PRR version.  I'm beginning to think they never will.

Ron H, I took a close look at the model photos and it looks like the chicken wire screen is tacked in place over the vents.

Ron, thanks for the chart, I have a similar chart but it doesn't have that much detail.

I do have two sets of Microscale SAL decals (1 set doesn't have enough striping to do the job) and the paint, all I need is to get the engine next week and some decent painting weather!

I just emailed Pat at P&D to see if his Fan kit PDP2717 comes with the low-profile fans.

Here's a photo of the engine I bought:

It's missing one lift ring, but other than that I didn't see anything else wrong.  He even said he thought that the problem with the sound is a loose/damaged wire.

Question about decals...The Microscale set I'll be using has stripes, but they're not long enough to do the entire side in one piece (that's why I have 2 sets).  Should I butt the pieces of decal or should I overlap the joint.  I'm thinking butt, because overlapping will make the stripe more opaque in the area of the overlap.

Bob,

If for some reason you decide not to strip the model you purchased and repaint it or to modify it to your specs, I have an Atlas undec F-3 shell (might be an F-7, have to check) that I can live without. It is nothing but the shell.

Butch 

Thanks Butch, I'll keep that in mind.  It shouldn't be a problem to strip with 91% isopropyl alcohol, just need to be careful with the small parts.  I made a dipping tank out of 4" diameter PVC pipe and can place the shell inside and let it soak.

up148 posted:

Bob,

If for some reason you decide not to strip the model you purchased and repaint it or to modify it to your specs, I have an Atlas undec F-3 shell (might be an F-7, have to check) that I can live without. It is nothing but the shell.

 

Butch 

Heck, if no one else wants it, I'm interested. how much do you want for it?

Mark in Oregon

Mark,

Let me verify if F-3 or F-7. Haven't looked at in a year or so as I went a different way with the project. 

Butch

up148 posted:

Mark,

Let me verify if F-3 or F-7. Haven't looked at in a year or so as I went a different way with the project. 

 

Butch

Seein' as how Atlas has never delivered an F7 the shell is either and F2/phase 1 F3 (3 portholes) or a Phase II F3 (2 portholes).

If you haven't sold it I'd be interested in the shell.

Bob, on your question re the decals. I have had more success with butting stripes. Yellow is not usually very opaque. I will be doing that on my 41 class.

If you feel that overlapping is easier for you, make the overlap at a place that can have some nice grimy muck leaking down it. :>

regards

 Bob Comerford

Thanks Bob!

I tried overlapping once and where they overlapped the color was darker/more opaque and noticeable, so I'll give the butt joint a go.

Fedex should be delivering the F3 any minute now

And it's here!

Looks fine on the outside, except one lift ring is missing.  After dinner I'll take the shell off and see what the problem was with the sound.  Then it's on to an alcohol bath!

The engine moves fine, no sound.  I think I've traced it to the speaker, it measures open.  I have another speaker that I'll try as soon as I can solder the small connector on it.

The fans do come out and so do the screens on the sides around the portholes, so i should be able to convert it to SAL 4030 easily.

FIXED!!!  It was the speaker, good thing I had another laying around.