Atlas O repaints....Gasp!

Guess I'm a bit confused by your term "repaints". I can definitely remember Atlas, as well as MTH, offering multiples road numbers of many/most of their scale freight cars. Thus, there is no real need to "repaint" any. For example, I have a 24 car PFE ice reefer train, made of various Intermountain, Red Caboose, and K-Line cars, all with different road numbers. Currently, MTH has been offering two different 6-car sets of various boxcars, reefers, coal hoppers, etc., all with different road numbers for the give name on the cars. 

How about repaints on some locomotives? Oh, I forgot that Atlas releases about 1 engine every epoch.

Atlas does offer, non-decorated models, which have to be ordered at the same time that current offering are been accessed for production.  So you could paint or re-paint accordingly.  Weaver also provided undecorated models.   Your hand with the paint could be what you are looking for.

These SW's from Atlas, were undecorated, new.  and painted a couple of different ways.

As well as all their Master Line cars. I do a lot of painting. From the current issue of The O Scale Resource

Well I for one was happy that Atlas O painted a 4427 hopper to the PRR H43. It was close enough. 

I am NOT happy that Lionel spent thousands of $$ on new tooling and advertising for "40 ft trailers" only to make them a scale 37.5 ft! We need scale 40' trailers. Seriously, we have scale 45' and 48' trailers, why chince on the length!

Hot Water,

You make a good point. What I mean when I say "re-paint" is additional road numbers in a given paint scheme and/or variations on a theme such as a change in lettering style or color, along with, and I know this grates on some strict prototype modelers, some schemes and lettering that never were or will be. The model does not change, only the color and lettering. For paint schemes and lettering that isn't strictly prototype, I think that I've heard the term "foobie" mentioned. I have noticed that, with a few exceptions, Atlas generally only offers two road numbers of a given paint scheme at a time. Sometimes 4. The Trainman 68ft Bulkhead Flat Car came in 4 numbers of TTX with an additional variation of the red TTX "Pennsylvania Heritage". Other paint schemes were only produced in 2 numbers. Some great exceptions to the two number rule were the Trinity 5161 Grain Hopper in BNSF "swoosh".  20 car numbers to date, I believe. Another was the ACF Coalveyor, 16 to 24 cars depending on the paint scheme. I have 16 numbers for Utility Fuels (UFIX), far too few for a unit train. However, when Atlas did offer re-issues years down the road, they were for second and third party owners that nobody really wanted so the run was canceled. Had we been offered a chance to have more numbers in the original paint schemes, I think it would have been a "go". As a sidebar, to my knowledge, MTH hasn't re-issued any 6 car sets of it's 1988 proto-type Gunderson 50ft Hi-cube in any prototype paint schemes almost since it was first released (BN, BNSF, UP, CN, CP, CSX, etc.). It would be nice to see more sets as O Scale has gained new adherents since then, but this topic is about Atlas, not MTH.

Now I have been talking about "modern" Atlas freight cars as I'm prefer to model prototypes post 1996-97. These are few in number and in short supply when they are produced, usually being only two car numbers at a time with long breaks (glaciers melt) between runs. However, I am a closet late 1950s-early 60s modeler as I wanted to revive and redo my 1956 Lionel Train as an Atlas train. Again, many cars, especially the 50 foot PS Boxcars are produced only two numbers at a time.

So maybe, the correct term is "re-issue" rather than re-paint. I'm still throwing it out there, though, what do you want to see re-issued and in what paint schemes? What re-issues would get you to loosen up the wallet?

Mike Caddell posted:

So maybe, the correct term is "re-issue" rather than re-paint. I'm still throwing it out there, though, what do you want to see re-issued and in what paint schemes? What re-issues would get you to loosen up the wallet?

I would definitely "loosen up" my wallet, if Atlas would have offered their 8000 gallon tank car in either GATX or UTLX, as I model in the late 1940s thru mid 1950s. I suggested that Atlas could offer such tank cars in 12 individual number sets, and they would probably sell hundreds of sets. My many, many suggestions continued to fall on deaf ears, until now Atlas has simply priced their stuff so high, that I refuse to purchase their seriously overpriced products.

MIKE CADDELL,

Mike I know these are "restencils" is that anything like you're referring to?

AL Hummel

Mike,

I hit the "2 number only" thing with my CSX 4750 hoppers,so with experimentation and many mistakes as well as many L-O-N-G hours of redoing mistakes,I've renumbered 10 of my 4750's and LOVE IT!! Oh I'm not a "Pro" by ANY MEANS,but it's good enough for me. I also changed any where from 1 number in the whole car number,other times I changed the entire car number on some of my 5161 CSX hoppers. Car 262038,is a complete renumber while the car it's coupled to has just a single digit changed,I think. The 4750's the CSX car is a complete renumber,while the SCL/yellow 4750 has been relettered for Seaboard,SBD with a corresponding renumbering,number. I did another 1 of these cars with CSXT letters and number.

Again,no bragging on these cars,but I enjoy it. Also added Conspicuity striping from Smokebox Graphics. I love the way they reflect!!

Al Hummel

Al,

I think re-stenciled cars would come under the "re-issued" definition we are using or maybe call it a "re-run" using that particular paint scheme.

I think people are getting lost in the weeds trying to pick apart the terms re-paint or re-issue. Again, simply put: What existing Atlas O and Trainman models would you like to see re-run in what paint schemes, prototype or imaginary, that would help you increase the car fleet of the railroad(s) you model. Hot Water's suggestion of 12 tank car sets is spot on, although your request doesn't have to be for 12 car numbers.  Let's have others make suggestions. Forget that Atlas didn't "do it" in the past, there's only today and tomorrow. Let's hear those ideas, and maybe, just maybe Atlas will hear them too! After all people, what do you have to lose here other than one or two short moments typing out your requests.

I would like to see CSX 4750s rerun as they're almost non-existent to find.

I would like to see more prototype detail this time,such as is found on the 3 hopper bays regarding cleaning the grooves and slide doors before moving the car. Also,I would like to see the info where winch cables used to hook into,placed on the models,such as,"PULL HERE" "JACK HERE" and "LIFT HERE." On the more modern hoppers,via the 1980 circa,these areas were expanded in size.

In addition, on the car ends,by the ladders,it says,CAUTION:NO SIDE LADDERS. The LN/Family Lines System hoppers produced in the same run as the CSX 4750s,had this detail. I'm wondering why this detail didn't continue over to other 4750s.(?) 

CSX has also placed yellow reflective stripes on their 4750s,which is a mandate for all freight cars and diesels since I think 2005. CSX has also paced 3 numbers together on 1 car panel,vs 2 numbers per panel.

Of course, I'd also like to see new models,in my case,SCL and L&N Family Lines System 4750s produced in 1980-81, and Seaboard System 4750 hoppers. I realize the Seaboard cars would not be done at the same time as the Family Lines 4750s,but if these cars aren't done soon they're going to be of less interest to modelers,as the cars carrying the original lettering and car numbers will no longer be seen as these cars are all being re lettered with "CSXT" where the original "SCL" or "L&N" letters were placed,and the car number is changed at the same time the lettering is. 

My apology for the slight detour from the subject topic here,but if Atlas is listening,they need to grasp the concept.

About the 12 car numbers,that'd be fantastic,but that'll be at the same time "pigs fly".

Al Hummel 

Dry transfer  C O T T O N  B E L T  lettering, car was NYC.   Car number is not prototypical though.

SPSF,

I used dry transfer lettering also, and they're very helpful. I think mine came from Woodland Scenics,no's 720&726.

Al Hummel

Hot Water posted:

I would definitely "loosen up" my wallet, if Atlas would have offered their 8000 gallon tank car in either GATX or UTLX, as I model in the late 1940s thru mid 1950s. I suggested that Atlas could offer such tank cars in 12 individual number sets, and they would probably sell hundreds of sets. My many, many suggestions continued to fall on deaf ears, until now Atlas has simply priced their stuff so high, that I refuse to purchase their seriously overpriced products.

I bought a few of those undecorated 8000 gallon tanks, just for the purpose of painting them and lettering them for UTLX.

Hot Water posted:

Mike Caddell posted:

So maybe, the correct term is "re-issue" rather than re-paint. I'm still throwing it out there, though, what do you want to see re-issued and in what paint schemes? What re-issues would get you to loosen up the wallet?

I would definitely "loosen up" my wallet, if Atlas would have offered their 8000 gallon tank car in either GATX or UTLX, as I model in the late 1940s thru mid 1950s. I suggested that Atlas could offer such tank cars in 12 individual number sets, and they would probably sell hundreds of sets. My many, many suggestions continued to fall on deaf ears, until now Atlas has simply priced their stuff so high, that I refuse to purchase their seriously overpriced products.

Jack you're 100 per cent right.  

I have two of the Red Caboose UTLX cars and they are like gold. 

Nowhere near enough UTLX cars available for any era, including the modern one.

What's sad is that the ACF type 21/27  tank cars are so overused in just about any scale when they really should have done the UTLX X-3 tanker.  

Most of the tankers in any scale are fantasy billboard schemes because they do sell a lot.  That's fine.  Nevertheless, an X series car would at least give the masses a shot the most popular 6k-10k gallon car for Union Tank, the largest tank car fleet operator by far.    Then letter up the X-3 for fantasy schemes and all would be right with the world.

I'd like to see another run of Trinity 5161 hoppers in more leasing companies. By the way, the November announcement is up and there are more NE-6 cabooses and 40' wood and steel reefers available in new paint schemes/road #s.

Great discussion Mike and all!

The comments above about needing assorted road numbers on plain Jane ULTX tank cars are spot on.  IMO more than a few brightly painted/lettered cars in a transition era freight give it a toy train look.   When I first converted to O scale I spent my modelling time (and limited budget) repainting All Nation, Athearn, and Atlas/Roco box cars in colorful schemes shared with Lionel 6464 series box cars.  When VHS color video tapes of 1950's era trains later became available I observed how typical freight trains looked back in the transition era I was modelling.  The 6464 style repaints were sold off and replaced by weathered InterMountain box car red 37 AAR cars.   

Catnap,

What would be your choices for a Trinity 5161 re-run? Mine would be Coors (CORX), AGPX in Gray (apparently they're no longer using green), DRGW in gray (fantasy scheme) and ADM with the blue flame herald. Also could use some more GATX numbers and Cotton Belt in small lettering, no big letters (I like Cotton Belt).

Any or all of these would be very high on my list. There was also a red Potash hopper that I think was a Golden Spike exclusive. I would love to see that cataloged.

Any of these past models would fetch at least $80 apiece on eBay.

Catnap,

I also agree with you that locomotive production from Atlas is glacial at best, but I would like to see a re-run of the GP60M/B in Super Fleet colors, along with BN(traditional Cascade Green and Black) and DRGW (arial numbers on the cab and hood rather than the traditional style). Of course those would be fantasy schemes, but I say not a problem. Also would like to see more standard cab GP60s in DRGW and Cotton Belt. There might even be enough reservations for more numbers in CSX and NS. Atlas also produced just one number each of BNSF Heritage ll for the GP60M and 60B. How about some more of those? Like Swafford says, "Ready to Buy when You Supply!". How about it Atlas?

Mike,

We think the same as I, too, would like to see more GP60's, namely standard cabs in Norfolk Southern and CSX . Now that Atlas will be using LokSound decoders in their 2-rail models I'm really hopeful that they can put their factory issues behind them and once again start producing motive power on a consistent basis. Even if Atlas never introduced another new model again I would totally be satisfied with reruns from past tooling.

I have 2 Wheeling & Lake Erie high nose GP35's that I recently installed LokSound L decoders in and I couldn't be more pleased with the sounds, lighting and performance. I would love to see reruns of GP35's from Atlas as well.

Don't forget about the Farmland and Ex. Farmland covered hoppers.   You could do a whole run of just variations of the ex farmland versions

CATNAP&MIKE DEBERG,

Those cars are certainly VERY NICE choices. I think the CSX 5161 in the "How Tomorrow Moves" scheme was well received by modelers,also. I'm a CSX modeler and bought 28 cars. Some 3 rail can be found,but the 2 rail version is gone.

Al Hummel

Al and SPSF,

What were your techniques for removing lettering/numbers without damaging the underlying paint?

Mike,

I use 3M 413Q,320 WETORDRY PAPER A wt sandpaper to remove the Atlas print. Last year when I started this by "trial&error," I used a lot of elbow grease and that took the paint down to the grey undercoat.

Since that time,I learned to use a very light pressure and this removes less paint. Oh it still gets some,but nothing that's not tolerable. I put the new letters and numbers over the area where the old ones were,so it works out pretty well. I use a small dowel rod to apply pressure to the sand paper.  A small piece of this paper cut in about 3/4" wide by an 1" long strips are what I use. After I take some lettering off,I wipe it on my pants to clear the surface for more sanding. When the lettering or numbers are erased,I've found using a #2 pencil eraser over the area where the old lettering was,helps remove left over black print. After so much erasing,I also use my pants to clean off the eraser. mom doesn't know about this,but what she don't know don't hurt her,LOL.

I buy Woodland Scenics MG726 NO. GOTHIC,R.R.-BLACK,DRY TRANSFERS for my numbering and MG720 GOTHIC,R.R. BLACK for my letters. This takes practice and you've got to just get up & walk away from the job to keep your cool. The end numbers&letters are where it REALLY GETS HAIRY. I've had to take many numbers and letters off & add new ones. To remove the unwanted dry transfer,I use the same dowel rod I used to originally press over the dry transfer to get it to adhere to the car to rub the old transfers off and they come off easy. When you're satisfied with your work,use the grey supplied paper and using your 'burnishing" tool, or pencil, or whatever you're using to apply the needed pressure to the dry transfer to get it to transfer from the transfer sheet to the car,and put the grey blank paper over the new dry transfer on your car and gently rub over the letters or numbers to get them set up on the car,as I've found sometimes,part of a letter or number doesn't always adhere to the car through the transfer process and this helps to get it on the car so you can then apply whatever type of finish you want over the transfer to give the new numbers or letters the type of finish you want,flat or glossy. I've never applied a finish over my numbers and letters yet,as I thought if I ever sold my O Equipment,the new owner could remove the lettering and numbers and put on his choice.

Hope this helps feel free to ask questions anytime as this is a lot to take in,in 1 stretch.

On my 5161 hoppers,I've found I can transfer a number over the existing numbers,1 at a time,with good success,as the Atlas number is very close to the dry transfer.

As Always,

Al Hummel

I had the best success with Solvaset and a Qtip removing lettering from Atlas Trinity 5161's.  Keep in mind to clean up afterwards with some water/alcohol, let dry and then spray a light gloss coat over to decal.  Once dry, decal and spray you're final clear coat, whatever you prefer.  Weathering can then be completed.

Although Microscale now has some lettering for NS and BNSF cars, I had some custom decals made which include full sets of numbers, side and ends.

I've done this with BNSF, NS and IAIS cars.

Mike DeBerg,

Do you think the same place that you got your custom decals,could make up decals for SCL or L&N/Family Lines 4750s like shown here? How much would they charge,roughly, do you think?

Thank you.

Al Hummel

After sleeping on it, it occurred to me that another T5161 could be Burlington Northern, in gray with small herald over the car number or Cascade Green (in the right shade. I think MTH has captured it correctly). Think of the possibilities. The skies the limit here. Imagine a run of the following:  BN in grey or Cascade Green, AGP in grey, DRGW in Grey, Coors in grey, and SSW in grey.

I bought a ton of the MTH club cars and York TCA cars for repainting.  I got nice Premier boxcars for less than $10/ea, the plan is doing about 30 of them for a nice unit train.

GUNRUNNERJOHN,

Sounds like a huge project, especially if you plan to strip, prime and repaint each car in a new paint scheme. I prefer to allow the importer to do the painting, because they can do it better than I and certainly more cost and time effectively than I.  I like to concentrate my time and energy on perfecting the model with prototype wheelsets, air hoses where needed, scale couplers etc. Get 'em tricked out and on the track, that my goal! What I like about the Atlas O Masterline is very little tweaking is needed for the cars themselves as they are already scale models of prototypes and lend themselves to O Scale operation. Being able to change or adjust numbers, as done by Al and SPSF will add another diminsion to the work and more variety, but we still need Atlas to produce more paint schemes and the demand is there, obviously. And yet, still,......would like to see MTH repeat the Gunderson 50' Hi-cubes in sets for the Class I railroads. I almost never see them on Ebay except in singles and very unreasonably priced. Glad you found what you were looking for. 

Good discussion here- I agree, we need more of the MTH 50' cubes in Class I roads. Also need more Trinity road names, there are so many out there waiting to be done. In addition, add more of the GATX, NAHX, TILX, etc simple, but effective, road names.

Mike, I'm planning on a simple paint scheme, probably either Reading green or the PRR boxcar brown.  These won't be trying to match or exceed professionally painted cars, I want them for shows to have nice consists to travel with.  I envision a mass painting project for all the shells at one time.  I just have to find a bunch of decals, or I may also go the route of creating a mythical road name with vinyl lettering, haven't decided for sure. 

Jeff78rr posted:

Good discussion here- I agree, we need more of the MTH 50' cubes in Class I roads. Also need more Trinity road names, there are so many out there waiting to be done. In addition, add more of the GATX, NAHX, TILX, etc simple, but effective, road names.

Definitely agree with ya guys on the simple plain schemes as well...

Another run of 50' hi cubes in Class I roads is great!  The fact is with that car, IMO, MTH could even do a little more what that car and have an Atlas masterline level car!

Alan Hummel posted:

Mike DeBerg,

Do you think the same place that you got your custom decals,could make up decals for SCL or L&N/Family Lines 4750s like shown here? How much would they charge,roughly, do you think?

Thank you.

Al Hummel

Al, Sure... Let me get the info for you.  Depending on if you do the design work or have them do it, there are some additional setup/startup fees otherwise it's fairly low cost to run the sheets, or half sheets of numbers jumbles.

Mike DeBerg,

Thank you,Mike,really appreciate it. I would have them do the design work,painting too,if they do that.

Am wishing & hoping Atlas will pick up on it,but not holding my breath.

Does anyone make a smooth side hopper in O scale which would be along the 4600 or 4650 cubic foot design like in the following picture? I know Weaver had a 3 bay as I have 1 of their Chessie models. Wish Lionel would pick up on this and other models.

Thanks,

Al

Alan Hummel posted:

Mike DeBerg,

Thank you,Mike,really appreciate it. I would have them do the design work,painting too,if they do that.

Am wishing & hoping Atlas will pick up on it,but not holding my breath.

Does anyone make a smooth side hopper in O scale which would be along the 4600 or 4650 cubic foot design like in the following picture? I know Weaver had a 3 bay as I have 1 of their Chessie models. Wish Lionel would pick up on this and other models.

Thanks,

Al

Hi Alan,

Actually Lionel already produces a really nice ACF  3 and 4 bay ACF-style covered hopper.  This car is actually made with former K-Line tooling and a very, very nice scale sized car – probably my favorite Lionel scale car and ranks equal to Atlas in detail.  It has an extruded aluminum body, etched brass roof walks, and finely detailed end grab irons and ladder detail at about the same price as an Atlas car sans the 2-Rail wheelsets.  This car comes in  both 3-bay gravity style outlets (grain, rice, corn, etc.) as well as a 4-bay pneumatic outlet (plastic pellets) version.  There is a 4-bay pneumatic-style outlet version painted for CSX in dark gray.

 Conversion to 2-Rail is not very difficult but does require some tedious work.  First, you need to drill and tap holes in the die cast ends to accept Kadee coupler draft gear boxes using 2 MM (metric) or 2-56 (Imperial) screws.  I also needed a few Kadee draft gear box shims (Micromark) to bring the coupler draft gear box down to the correct height- I think I needed two shims per end.  For the trucks, it was a little more painful, I reused the Lionel truck side frames and bolster since the bolster was made for mounting to this car.  I then completely disassembled the entire truck assembly, including removal of the 6-springs on each truck side frame (save the springs and don’t let them go flying or you’ll never find them as you will need them for reassembly after replacing with 2-Rail wheelsets).  One trick is to remove the springs with your hands and truck assembly inside a large clear plastic bag, such as the plastic bag the dry cleaners use when they return your clean garments so if the springs go flying, at least they will remain inside the plastic bag and you will have a fighting chance to find them.   I used a Dremel with a cutoff wheel to remove the Lionel lobster claw coupler assembly that was riveted to the bolsters and then replaced the 3-Rail pizza cutter wheels with NWSL 2-Rail 36” Lionel “spinner-style”  roller bearing wheelsets and re-used the plastic Lionel roller bearing caps to retain the spinning roller bearings.    When finished, for around $100, after purchasing the 3-Rail car and a set of NWSL 36” wheelsets,  you have a really nice 2-rail car that rivals even some of the brass models that were done of this car in the past.

 The first Grand Trunk car shown in this thread is the 4-bay version of this car:

https://ogrforum.com/...-favorite-4-bay-cars

 Here are some other helpful links:

https://ogrforum.com/...-ton-covered-hoppers

 http://www.lionel.com/products...hopper-96169-6-17186

 Scott K.