Auction Prices

Stout has a reputation for getting high prices on postwar and prewar trains. Many of the best collections go across their block and there are many high end collectors who regularly bid with them. Mint and like new pieces have been bringing record money for a solid 25-30 years at this point which means there are many more collectors with the want and means than there are trains in the condition they desire.

On the other hand, good deals can be had on modern era trains quite often. Prices at the modern era auctions fluctuate quite a bit so you can get great deals for items that frequently show up if you’re patient. Just remember that buyers premium and shipping will be added.

I've tried bidding on modern stuff on Stout. After a few auctions, I gave up.

No matter how high my highest bid was, it was never even close enough to win. It was laughable watching those electronic bid numbers flash.  May as well just buy new.

Nothing against Stout, more power to 'em. Once again, with all the complaints about prices. There are still plenty of folks with money to throw around.

Doesn’t it always seem that the best examples of “whatever” - always bring the highest prices, be it collectibles, vehicles or real estate ?

I agree, some of the lots go for staggering prices.  The prices seem to be going higher, which is surprising given the economy.  That being said, there are still deals to be had.  Over the last 6 months I was able to acquire several NIB engines and dummy engines that I really like for 60% or so of the Greenberg mint price.

I agree with Ryan. Deals can be had on modern trains even with the premium and shipping.

Pete

@Norton,

Yes, I should have added that all the good buys were for modern era engines.  My post war purchases always were slightly over the Greenberg mint price.  Like someone said, the stuff that is sold on Stout is always good quality.

They've been very responsive post-sales as well.  I made what I thought was a great purchase on an engine.  I admit I wasn't familiar with this particular engine, and looking into it I found out it was a dummy, not a powered unit.  However, it never said that on the Stout description.  I contacted Katy Zippie and then Suzanne Shirley with Stout, pointed out the issue with the description, and asked if they could cancel the purchase (it hadn't been billed or sent yet).  They agreed right away.

I've gotten some excellent deals through Stout and Cabin Fever, and the other site that shall not be named. That said, not every lot is going to be a deal.

People a lot of times talk about what something is worth. A good friend of mine always used to say, "Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay."

In auctions you are bidding against people that may really want that particular item, and has the means to pay top dollar. If you are collecting very popular items, you are also likely bidding against many other individuals. On the flip side, if you are looking at an item that you yourself like, but few people collect, you might have less competition.

You can't really get mad at people spending their own money for something they want on auctions that typically start at $1 or maybe $10. Some "auctions" aren't really auctions at all on the big auction site, and the pricing can be pretty ludicrous. These types of things do mess with the overall market a bit since it normalizes the high asking price, and traps unsuspecting, ill-informed buyers.

@rplst8 posted:

and the other site that shall not be named

eBay?

Boxes and set boxes are going for big money now. If you have the box the price goes way up.  There are people that over bid, they just want it, and the price means nothing to them. Here's an example of crazy bidding on that auction Saturday.  An instruction booklet for the 700E went for $250. You can buy them on Ebay for around $20. It's a very common item. Lionel made a ton of them.  There are some bargains on Stout Auctions once in a while. Stout is a very professional auction. I know the people well that own it. I don't like Cabin Fever, too much of non train stuff. Sorry I used the word junk.

@eddie g,

I have gotten several modern era cars on the bay way, way below MSRP as well as being way below Greenberg.  When the bay price is an extremely good deal I always have to wonder if I'm getting what I think I'm buying.  So far I haven't been swindled (at least as far as I can determine).

The answer to those high prices is scarcity, at this point, 60 or 70 or 80 years out, how many mint/ln units do you really see? We are talking original units, units that have been restored generally fetch lower prices in almost anything I can think of. The Voldemort Jr auction site is a weird place, because sometimes it really is hard to tell what things are going for, I wouldn't be surprised if to raise prices people with stuff up get friends to put in bids on stuff, and if they win they privately wash it, if not they get higher prices. High prices also can be about one person's desire to have something, where the market value and what they are willing to pay are two different things, where they are willing to pay more (in a sense, a lot of items that are auction and have a buy it now as well are like that). 

I have heard some shall we say optimistic people telling me this means that their post war collection is going to be worth a lot when it comes time to sell, and it is just that, optimism (maybe taken to a big extreme.....), ordinary stuff is just not going to command large prices, it will be the scarce stuff that is going to increase in price. Kind of like that baseball card you once used in the spokes of the wheels of your bike, and then realizing what it could be work if you sealed it in plastic and put it away (On the other hand, trains to me are like what the late "Spaceman" Bill Lee said about baseball cards and collecting: "Man, baseball cards are for putting in the spokes of your bike and going like a bat out of h***, that is the best"

@eddie g posted:

I don't like Cabin Fever, too much junk in it.

@eddie g,

Define "junk", and please be very careful.

Are you accusing Cabin Fever of knowingly pushing trash?

Or, are you saying that the stuff they offer might be desirable by some, or even many, folks but is just not the kind of stuff you're interested in?

Words can be dangerous.

Mike

I have never used these upper-end auction sites and never will. The prewar/postwar collectors can have them. I have one postwar set I received from Santa in 1955 which I keep in like new condition and it's all I want from that era.

I'm a modern Lionel guy and get all I need from eBay and Trainz. Works for me. 😉

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

@eddie g,

Define "junk", and please be very careful.

Are you accusing Cabin Fever of knowingly pushing trash?

Or, are you saying that the stuff they offer might be desirable by some, or even many, folks but is just not the kind of stuff you're interested in?

Words can be dangerous.

Mike

"One man's trash is another man's treasure", as they say. I find many affordable items at Cabin Fever auctions. Yes, some of it is kind of junky, like a flat full of AHM, HO car bodies. But there are some really nice items that go at seemingly reasonable prices. You just have to pick through their offerings. Stout has mostly top-of-the-line items, and bid prices are usually high. Now and then, I will find a deal on a Stout item, but not often. It is still fun to browse through both of these auction sites to see what might turn up.

Jeff

My complaint about Cabin Fever is the lack of detailed descriptions of the items.  I would be more willing to bid if condition information and better photos were provided.  The presence of lower quality or non-train items doesn't bother me - skipping to the next item isn't very difficult.

What other people are willing to pay for an item doesn't bother me - I find it entertaining.   

@mowingman posted:

I find many affordable items at Cabin Fever auctions. Yes, some of it is kind of junky, like a flat full of AHM, HO car bodies. But there are some really nice items that go at seemingly reasonable prices. You just have to pick through their offerings. Stout has mostly top-of-the-line items, and bid prices are usually high. Now and then, I will find a deal on a Stout item, but not often. It is still fun to browse through both of these auction sites to see what might turn up.

Jeff

Agreed.

Mike

Meh. Depends on the auction and the audience. If it's a mostly postwar auction with a couple modern pieces thrown in then someone might get a deal on the modern pieces, since the audience will probably be focusing on the postwar stuff.

I've gotten great deals at several auctions from several places over the past two years. It's the old right place, right time adage.

On the Stout auctions I probably win once out of 50 bids I leave or about once every 3 months.  I was surprised wining a boxed 6044-1X Nestles boxcar and a 2347 C&O GP with low bids.  There must have been bad weather and bidders didn't show up.

Unfortunately, as a Canadian post-secondary student, it is basically impossible for me to participate in these American auctions, at least until I'm done school this spring and find some full time work. Between the shipping, exchange rate, high fees and the other bidder's deep pockets, I have to stick to the local auction houses. I do like to occasionally look at the American ones, just to daydream... Though I did win a running 259E w/tender in an auction up here for about $50 CAD after fees which I feel is not too bad.

Who cares what some pay thousands of dollars for Mint model train shelf queens.  The price is for mint and will be greatly devalued if used or run and really enjoyed.

Charlie

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Who cares what some pay thousands of dollars for Mint model train shelf queens.  The price is for mint and will be greatly devalued if used or run and really enjoyed.

Charlie

I agree, Charlie.

Here are my thoughts on this, and related, subjects: What Are Our Toy Trains "Worth"? (warrenvillerailroad.com)

A friend recently bid on a VERY large lot of "mint" boxed Plasticville. The few pics looked great.

He noticed the letters "NNC" in the description. Turned out that that means "Not Necessarily Complete". Who Knew?? Did you? We didn't.

Sounds like a way for the auction house to protect their a** by giving them a way out.

@carl552 posted:

On the Stout auctions I probably win once out of 50 bids I leave or about once every 3 months.  I was surprised wining a boxed 6044-1X Nestles boxcar and a 2347 C&O GP with low bids.  There must have been bad weather and bidders didn't show up.

I bought a pair of CB&Q E7s from Stout auctions, one of the Seacrest auctions. The next item on the list was a pait of RockIsland E7s. Yep, they switched the addresses or something. I got the other guy's stuff. I called, they had heard from the other guy already. It took less than a week for them to get the locos back by sending us return addresses free. Reinspected the locos, reshipped them free to both of us all with in a week. That's service!

Dick

My observations:

1. There is the psychology of the auction that enters the picture, where bidding becomes a matter of principle.

2. We have all seen the large collections in the media, items on display to admire. We boomers will die off and those large,          unrun collections will be put on the market, competing against each other, which will lower the prices.

3. Look at the new generation of millennials and those following.  Will they sustain demand we see in some instances now,          similar to the boomers?  Not likely, since their collective experiences  are different from today's buyers. A major                       difference: Joshua Cowan was careful to develop the market with restrictive choices, creating a thirst for more. I am that          way with the 200 series of Alco's. I recall coming of age with the 1958 catalog and realizing there are desirable                           variations. Today, by contrast, there are many more choices and variations, thus reducing the desire for those earlier,               particular variations.

   Mark

@Lionelski posted:

A friend recently bid on a VERY large lot of "mint" boxed Plasticville. The few pics looked great.

He noticed the letters "NNC" in the description. Turned out that that means "Not Necessarily Complete". Who Knew?? Did you? We didn't.

Sounds like a way for the auction house to protect their a** by giving them a way out.

Having bought and sold many things via auction there are some simple things to keep in mind.

No need for the guesswork, postulation, or drama that come along with assuming that everyone's out to get you.  Just inform the auction house of the confusion and send it back.

If they're reputable there won't be any problem.  If not, did you do your homework on the house's customer satisfaction beforehand?

If "all sales final" please note that before bidding.  And, by the way most auction sites have a method (a button to click) for asking questions on lots before placing a bid if something needs clarification.

Mike

The real mystery to me is the stuff going for decent prices at auction and the same stuff just sitting on the bay - no takers. I've bought from Stout, Trainz, Cabin Fever, the bay and this forum, as well as new stuff from brick and mortar hobby shops - most being forum sponsors. I decided what I was willing to pay and passed when it got out of hand IMO.

Auctions are simply what two buyers at the time are willing to pay for an item. I was recently bidding on a NIGHTHAWKS SCENE KIT against one other bidder. The hammer price including fees ended close to what the retail price was. Turns out there are a few kits still available from the original manufacturer, so it was not a "rare" as I had thought.  Won flex track and several DownTown Deco buildings, so overall  a good shopping day.

Looking back through my inventory sheet, prices are up 2x to 3x especially anything MTH from 2 years ago. Common Lionel cars - hard to sell at any price. Like anything - it depends on what people are looking for.   

A while back I won a Joe Fischer Pullman from Stout for about half (including fees) of what they usually sell for. I have no idea where the high-rollers were on that auction!

@PRRMP54 posted:

A while back I won a Joe Fischer Pullman from Stout for about half (including fees) of what they usually sell for. I have no idea where the high-rollers were on that auction!

Same, here but it was a mint MTH WM 4-6-6-4 M2 and a near-mint 3rd Rail PRR 4-4-6-4 Q1. I got them for probably half their original MSRP and well under prices I've seen on The Bay.