Back to School for Train Repairs !

Can it be done virtually, maybe via Zoom?

Looks like these are online virtual classes:

One key is like school there is a final exam!!!

Great idea but what are Lionel repair guys supposed to do for parts?

Pete

@Norton posted:

Great idea but what are Lionel repair guys supposed to do for parts?

Pete

Agreed but at end of the trainz  academy agenda you get parts list and diagrams, the question will be how up to date they are and if needed lead you to the Trainz parts store or lionel.

@Norton posted:

Great idea but what are Lionel repair guys supposed to do for parts?

Pete

Although you probably didn't intend it to be taken this way, someone, maybe many people, will take this seriously.  So this isn't a fair question.

Pete you already know that there are plenty of parts, both from Lionel and from third parties.  Maybe not the recently discontinued and very specific electronic parts but many, many, many, others.

Would you rather that no one attend these classes when they read your comment?

Is it good for the hobby for potential attendees to think that the classes are a waste of time and money because nothing ever made by Lionel in its 123 years can be repaired due to a lack of parts when it's largely not true?

I think not.

Mike

  Will somebody pay my student loan so I can go ?

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Although you probably didn't intend it to be taken this way, someone, maybe many people, will take this seriously.  So this isn't a fair question.

Pete you already know that there are plenty of parts, both from Lionel and from third parties.  Maybe not the recently discontinued and very specific electronic parts but many, many, many, others.

Would you rather that no one attend these classes when they read your comment?

Is it good for the hobby for potential attendees to think that the classes are a waste of time and money because nothing ever made by Lionel in its 123 years can be repaired due to a lack of parts when it's largely not true?

I think not.

Mike

The question was as stated. Let everyone take the course as they wish. Always good to know how these trains work but if the point is to be able to make repairs after taking the course then it only has limited value. Hopefully they will suggest alternate ways to get their trains running again.

Pete

What a great opportunity. What a service to the hobby. Thanks so much for drawing attention to this. I have emailed Trainz and asked them to consider organizing a scholarship fund for individuals who pledge to commit to O gauge repair as a vocation for some minimum length of time/number of repairs but don't have the 500 or 900 bucks to get started.

For those fully retired, not me, this might help them not only fix their own trains, but fix those of others, and to make a little money, maybe to pay some bills or at least to buy more trains.

Both of those guys certainly know their stuff, so that's a plus.  I will say that while you'll certainly pick up some pointers, the only way you're going to get proficient at train repairs, especially the modern stuff, is by doing.  I learn every day, and I've been doing it for quite a while.

Is this going to be offered indefinitely? Could swing the 500 for a class ina couple of months.

@Lionelzwl2012 posted:

Is this going to be offered indefinitely? Could swing the 500 for a class ina couple of months.

I don't see why not, it's pre-recorded training videos. Trainz will probably have to pay some royalties to Don, Mike, Lionel & MTH for their time and publications for each session purchased.

Interesting.  I see both folks getting comfortable opening their locomotives and I see an increase in repairs going to seasoned techs after a disastrous attempt at repairs.  Either way people will be making some money out of this.

@H1000 posted:

I don't see why not, it's pre-recorded training videos. Trainz will probably have to pay some royalties to Don, Mike, Lionel & MTH for their time and publications for each session purchased.

IMO, although the presenters deserve to be compensated, it seems like a lot of money for pre-recorded video.  If it was interactive with live Q&A, that would be a different story.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Although you probably didn't intend it to be taken this way, someone, maybe many people, will take this seriously.  So this isn't a fair question.

Pete you already know that there are plenty of parts, both from Lionel and from third parties.  Maybe not the recently discontinued and very specific electronic parts but many, many, many, others.

Would you rather that no one attend these classes when they read your comment?

Is it good for the hobby for potential attendees to think that the classes are a waste of time and money because nothing ever made by Lionel in its 123 years can be repaired due to a lack of parts when it's largely not true?

I think not.

Mike

🙄

Pat

@MartyE posted:

Interesting.  I see both folks getting comfortable opening their locomotives and I see an increase in repairs going to seasoned techs after a disastrous attempt at repairs. Either way people will be making some money out of this.

I see the price repair rate sign needs an update.

Minimum repair fee $50

If you touched it first fee $100

If you watch fee $150

If you tell us how to repair it fee $200

Very good, very much needed. 

Long overdue for something like this to be offered.  That said, as mentioned above, the only way to get good at anything like this is to do it over and over again at the side of someone more skilled. In medicine, we have the somewhat humorous, but mostly serious expression "learn one, do one, teach one" for procedures such as a spinal tap, arterial puncture, minor surgery, etc.  The"do one" has to be done with a more experienced practitioner there or nearby, obviously.  That is still the missing piece here in the long run: apprenticeship.

One of the folks teaching the class has told me that even though they would pass X amount of techs during the times when the manufacturers held classes, only 10% or less could be trusted to do repairs correctly.  I guess they had to fix quite a few "repaired" engines.  Don't get me wrong as I am sure there are folks capable and would benefit from these classes but I can see the potential for issues. 

@CHOO-CHOO MIKE posted:

  Will somebody pay my student loan so I can go ?

Literally would have to skip a student loan payment (just kidding, you can't) to make one of the classes haha guess I'll keep learning via this forum and unfortunate experience.

I'm glad to see it being offered though. It's a good start and I hope some people sign up and come away with some great info!

My questions are as follows:

1.  What kind of printed materials do I get for reference later?

2.  Can I make a permanent copy of the online tutorials for reference later?

If I have to rely completely on notes I take during the seminars I would not be interested.

John

@Craftech posted:

My questions are as follows:

1.  What kind of printed materials do I get for reference later?

2.  Can I make a permanent copy of the online tutorials for reference later?

If I have to rely completely on notes I take during the seminars I would not be interested.

John

Folks thinking of this can go to pre school at the TMCC and DCS forums on this website. Many of the diagrams of the boards in question have already been posted there. Start studying them and take note of the pin locations and assignments plus they can be printed for your records.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Folks thinking of this can go to pre school at the TMCC and DCS forums on this website. Many of the diagrams of the boards in question have already been posted there. Start studying them and take note of the pin locations and assignments plus they can be printed for your records.

Pete

Thanks Pete,

John

You can always learn more. We are always learning. This sounds like a basic starting place. Some of us have dove into repairs, failed, learned, had success. Nobody is gonna be an expert from a few zoom classes.

I think this is a great idea and I thank Trainz for offering the courses. I plan on taking both courses for the sole purpose of providing a starting point for repairing my own trains and becoming somewhat comfortable in the repair process . I agree with John in the hope that they supply a method for hard copy reference materials for later use.

If these are just videos, and not in-person training, I personally think they're over-priced.  Interactive in person training is one thing, sitting watching videos is quite another.

There's no substitute for the smell of burning circuit boards as a train aid!

@Vernon Barry posted:

I see the price repair rate sign needs an update.

Minimum repair fee $50

If you touched it first fee $100

If you watch fee $150

If you tell us how to repair it fee $200

Like to add a couple...

If you know how easy it is to do because you've seen a YouTube video - $75

If you tried repairing it without first searching the OGR forum for information - $250

@Mallard4468 posted:

Like to add a couple...

If you know how easy it is to do because you've seen a YouTube video - $75

If you tried repairing it without first searching the OGR forum for information - $250

If someone tells me how easy it is to do, there is no price, because the conversation is over……

Pat

After looking at the curriculum on each of the courses (you can see them HERE) and the FAQ, this looks like a good place to start.  I'd still like to know if the material you get to download after completing the courses covers everything in the videos, or if not, if you can go back and re-watch the videos after completing the courses (as a refresher).

Andy

Hey, I heard you missed us, we're back!
I brought my pencil
Give me something to write on!

I don’t feel tardy,…..

Pat

Reviewed the curriculum and it looks pretty comprehensive (I'm more familiar with Lionel issues than MTH, granted).  Would be interested in the opinions of those who wind up taking the course(s).

Like it or not, on-line transfer of expertise is likely the wave of the future.

I wonder if TRAINZ would consider an on-site apprenticeship with their repair department of a week or two at a cost that reflects their net costs?  Folks who pass the on-line course might be good to enough to pay for their keep in services for a week or two,  perhaps while acquiring more hands on experience?  And then some of these folks who perform well could provide these services to TRAINZ from their home locations?

I'm old school and like paper.    I like to have diagrams and explanation written out where I can read them - and then when I need them, go back and reference them. 

Also, my computer is in my office on the 2nd floor, and my layout and model workshop are in the basement.   So I can't easily watch videos where I work on trains and vice versa.

@harmonyards posted:

Hey, I heard you missed us, we're back!
I brought my pencil
Give me something to write on!

I don’t feel tardy,…..

Pat

If there is anyone who is unfamiliar, the above are lyrics from the Van Halen song "Hot for Teacher" on their sixth studio album, 1984. Thank you @harmonyards for the nice rejoinder. Although if anyone in these train repair classes is hot for teacher, I will not be sitting next to them.

   I think of all the education that I've missed...

@Norman R posted:

I think of all the education that I've missed...

...but then my homework was never quite like this!

TRW

I like the idea of these classes and I hope that those who sign up for them will greatly benefit from them. It would be awesome if graduates of these courses would get jobs at local train dealers. It would be even more awesome if there was a local train dealer within 50 miles of my house. It would be most awesome if the economics of local train dealerships was such that they would not be looking at going out of business soon. Maybe someone could offer a class on how to successfully open a model train dealership?

But all seriousness aside, my real concern is that the important stuff will not be taught. If we learn only the "company" version of how to service an early 1990's Lionel smoke unit, how will we ever know about the needed modification as shown in the OGR video about that? And I am unaware of any good data about the proper way to recharge Lionel MgneTraction... someone at Lionel must know, but no one is talking. And, yes, some of my recent Lionel engines have MagneTraction and they do need to be recharged.

@MartyE posted:

Interesting.  I see both folks getting comfortable opening their locomotives and I see an increase in repairs going to seasoned techs after a disastrous attempt at repairs.  Either way people will be making some money out of this.

I don't have alot of train breakdowns,  maybe some fresh wicking or a smoke fan here or there which I can handle myself.

I'll save my $900 for something more serious, and have one of the experienced repair folks on this forum take care of it for me.

@John in California posted:

I like the idea of these classes and I hope that those who sign up for them will greatly benefit from them. It would be awesome if graduates of these courses would get jobs at local train dealers. It would be even more awesome if there was a local train dealer within 50 miles of my house. It would be most awesome if the economics of local train dealerships was such that they would not be looking at going out of business soon. Maybe someone could offer a class on how to successfully open a model train dealership?

But all seriousness aside, my real concern is that the important stuff will not be taught. If we learn only the "company" version of how to service an early 1990's Lionel smoke unit, how will we ever know about the needed modification as shown in the OGR video about that? And I am unaware of any good data about the proper way to recharge Lionel MgneTraction... someone at Lionel must know, but no one is talking. And, yes, some of my recent Lionel engines have MagneTraction and they do need to be recharged.

Some of the stuff you asked about would be considered aftermarket hop ups,…..like modifying stock smoke units, etc,…….on a factory service level, that stuff will never be taught, …..as it’s a modification, ….re-magnetizing I’d imagine is now a lost art, ….there’s only a few of us I know of that can do it,….

Pat

I think it is a great idea, but see some problems. IE many repairs I see are in need of obsolete parts, radio boards, motor driver boards, sound and power boards. No point in learning the pinouts if no replacements are available. even basic starter set reverse unit boards, starter set smoke units. Obsolete motors and tach. readers. Obsolete gears. Can't even repair a common air whistle tender as no circuit board available. There are virtually no accessory circuit boards available. Not much can be repaired on the newer RCMC boards, as the whole board needs replacement if something is bad.

Kinda limited to what can be taught?