Ballast or ground cover first?

In real life, ground cover is first, so, that is what I would do

@Dan Kelley

Dan:

I heartily second Lionelski. Ground cover first.

Ground cover first makes sense to me. Thanks for the responses.

@Dan Kelley posted:

I am getting to the stage of starting scenery. I was wondering if I should start  with ballast before ground cover or the other way around? I am finishing weathering my track, should be done this week.

Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by "ground cover" . . .

On the one hand, the track itself has to sit on *something*, so whether that "something" is bare or painted plywood or foam, or meticulously ground foam and static grass-coated landscaping to me is almost beside the point. At some point, the ballasting will need to be done (if that's your vision), and in the end, the "ground cover" (e.g., grass and weeds) will have the final word on what the track and surrounds will look like.

In my case, I've tended to throw down a layer of paper-backed simulated grass on the top of the layout, before adding a foam roadbed and 3-rail tubular track, which was then ballasted. Much of the ROW was left like that, but I've been backing and filling with further ground cover detail, including over and around the ballasting:

So at least based on what I've done so far, I guess my answer to the question, "ground cover or ballast first?", is "Yes!"

If you use the recommended method shown by Rich Melvin in his YouTube video (which is the best way IMO), you soak the ballast with wet water before applying a glue mixture with a squirt bottle.

If the ground cover is already in place, I sometimes get a line of water staining on the ground cover an inch or two from the ballasted area. This is due to the water/glue mixture seeping outward from the ballast into the ground cover.

I found that this depends on the type of glue or matte medium used, as well as the type of ballast used, and whether the ballast has any water soluble coloring.

Because of this, I ballast first and then run the ground cover up to the edge of the ballast.

This also allows me to clean up the edges of the ballast more easily. It's easier to move ballast around with a brush on bare plywood than on a rough-textured ground cover surface.

Jim

Ballast first. I makes it easier to shape the ballast outside of the rails. Also everything Jim Policastro said is relevant, (thanks Jim). Just my suggestion

Either way you cant go wrong

Steve

Thanks everyone. Jim after watching the video I think i am going to ballast first.

I have an extensive track system and I did my ballasting first for all the reasons stated by Jim but adding a step to Rich Melvins method. I put down a good thick layer on white glue first before adding the ballast. Then follow Rich's method. My rule for ballasting is simple. Wet water and glue are cheap so I don't skimp on these items. Ballast on the other hand is expensive so getting it to stay where you put it is the goal. Here are some pictures of ballsting.

Very nice looking work Bill. I love you layout!

In the real world, the ground cover is there and the railroad comes along, levels the area where the track will go, puts the track in place, and then ballasts it. In the process, the ballast overlays some of the ground cover. My scenery was done in that order.

MELGAR

I do the ground cover first.    I found when I did  the ballast first, I invariably got "grass" and "dirt" on/in the ballast.   I want my main line to look well maintained, not weed grown, so I do the ground cover first.    Then if ballast goes astray, it is typical of Right or ways and looks OK

Count me as another ground cover first!

Good reasons for doing either first. I tend to use cotton batting glued down and painted to establish a general topography, and then apply ground cover. I find its way easier to lay in the ballast after the batting is down so I can have a good looking transition from the ground cover to the ballast. The batting produces an 1/8 inch high barrier for the ballast to lay against. Cutting the batting to match the ballast would be a challenge.

I've had power drops break off the connecting pins. Pulling ballasted and glued track up to do the repair is a major headache. So I do not intend on glueing down my ballast and simply leave it loose.

Try a search:   Scenic Express.  There is, or was, a good paper catalog. Most all items are available via a very good website.  The website has "how to video/articles" sprinkled through the website.   Kalmbach also has a couple of different "how to" paper back books on model railroad scenery.   Neither reference is a forum sponsor.  Scenic Express is local to the east Pittsburgh area.

Layout building section of this forum also has a Scenery Source List.  A lot of good links, to just about everything scenery related.    Have fun, Mike CT.

Over the 8 years it took to build my "dream" layout, scenery was my least skilled task. I used several resources for guidance. The text by Dave Frary became a bible for those actions (see photo). He makes it clear to do the ballasting AFTER the ground cover: "Ballasting is best done last, after all the scenery is in place, so you can make sure the ballast flows realistically over the roadbed and onto the surrounding scenery, just like on full-sized railroads." The chapter on Ballasting Track is #11 in the text of 12 chapters.

As I completed the scenery in various places on the layout, if tracks were in the area, ballasting was done last.

Hope this helps,

Michael

I do ground cover first (usually just in the area I'm laying track) then the foam roadbed, then track, then ballast last.

I guess either way is correct. It depends on personal preference. I prefer to lay the ballest last after all the scenery work is done.

However I do use 1/4" homosote with the correct 30° angle cut into it as my sub roadbed. This allows for the proper ballest profile when I finely do get around to it.

I like clean shoulder breaks so I always do ballast first. If the ballast is secured, it is quite easy to brush excess ground cover off of the smooth ballast slope. If the ground cover is secured first, I find it much more difficult to brush away excess ballast from the bumpy scenery ground cover. But either works.

Just saw this.  I do ballast last just like the real railroads