B&O "Docksider" switcher... why no love?

I have a R.O.W. B&O originally purchased new, and an old KTM factory 3 rail version (manual reverse).  Both are nice models.  I do not have a MTH but have seen them.  I won't remark on the KTM as they are a fluke to find 3 rail and they have no reverse.

The R.O.W. has fully detailed valve gear, The MTH has simplified cheapo valve gear.

The R.O.W. has more detail in general as would be expected in a brass model, The MTH is a starter engine with much less detail.

There has always been something about the front cylinders of the MTH that doesn't look right, even though I can't put a finger on it exactly.

The R.O.W. has electronic F-N-R control as was normal for its time. I do not know if  the MTH has DCS or not.

I have have not seen where Atlas got the tooling, just going by what market Atlas is going after, I doubt it.

Below are my opinions:

Cosmetically there is no contest as R.O.W. comes out on top, putting a control system in would require a "tag along electronics" car  to house the components.  Depending on the MTH control system that would be the only advantage in my opinion if you can tolerate the cosmetics.  If someone wanted to tinker, by adding details the MTH could probably dress up fairly decent.

So how you operate could make a difference and what you can tolerate cosmetics wise.  I'm not a rabid rivet counter, but the MTH just never cut it for me, but remember it was never intended to be a premier line locomotive.

I have always been a big fan of Dockside engines. I used to have. KTM two rails which I installed a new can motor and added DCC and sound. It was a sweet runner. I sold it when I went from two rails to three rails . I don’t know why manufacturers don’t make small steam engines. They are so useful and anyone with  any support size of layout can use one.

I have the MTH version and recently received a 2 rail KTM version that is a pretty nice model...at least compared to the MTH model. I don’t have any 2 rail cars with the small scale couplers but it does run pretty nice on its own. Does anyone know how old this locomotive is ?

@Devildog posted:

I don’t know why manufacturers don’t make small steam engines. They are so useful and anyone with  any support size of layout can use one.

Well, Lionel did make the LC+ 2.0 0-6-0.  Command controlled with BT or TMCC for a street price of a bit over $200.

Yes ! I forgot about that. But as I remembered it was sold out immediately 😉

I'm sure they'll come around again.  I see a couple sets with the engine, but no separate engines available.  I grabbed a couple when they first came out, not bad for the price.

I have three of the MTH 0-4-0's (B&O, NYC, and no road name). Great little engines. The ROW models are much nicer and more detailed but pound for pound you can't beat the MTH. They are conventional with electronic e-units. My biggest complaint is that MTH scored the drive wheels for traction instead of using a tire. They sound like a sick washing machine running around the layout.

I have owned both the MTH and ROW models.  IMO, the ROW is hands down superior, better detail, smooth running slow speed, no annoying buzz due to the scored wheels.  I sold the MTH and never looked back.  The ROW will ride my rails for a long time.  The lionel 0-6-0 just looks cartoonish.  It is too bad no manufacturer pays much attention to these small units.

I have one of the little MTH models.  I added command and electrocouplers to make it compatible with my operating environment.  I also added a little board to turn off the smoke when it stopped.  I agree that the scored wheels were a mistake.  OTOH, it does pull well for such a small locomotive.

@necrails posted:

I have owned both the MTH and ROW models.  IMO, the ROW is hands down superior, better detail, smooth running slow speed, no annoying buzz due to the scored wheels.

Too bad it's not readily available.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have one of the little MTH models.  I added command and electrocouplers to make it compatible with my operating environment.  I also added a little board to turn off the smoke when it stopped.  I agree that the scored wheels were a mistake.  OTOH, it does pull well for such a small locomotive.

Too bad it's not readily available.

I have one of these and have wondered how to make it command? You mind sharing how you did it? I have always like this little guy.

@necrails posted:

The lionel 0-6-0 just looks cartoonish.

It has a prototype.  Leetona & Cherry Valley #1.

Rusty

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have one of the little MTH models.  I added command and electrocouplers to make it compatible with my operating environment.  I also added a little board to turn off the smoke when it stopped.  I agree that the scored wheels were a mistake.  OTOH, it does pull well for such a small locomotive.

Too bad it's not readily available.

Wow John- you were able to fit all of that under the shell?

I bought all three of mine from Trainz. Two were engine only, the B&O # 97 came with a work train set.

@Rusty Traque posted:

It has a prototype.  Leetona & Cherry Valley #1.

Rusty

A few others as well:

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtim...eam/algoma_steel.htm

And what appears to be a closely related survivor

https://www.flickr.com/photos/n8myc/9168739962/

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, Lionel did make the LC+ 2.0 0-6-0.  Command controlled with BT or TMCC for a street price of a bit over $200.

I originally had this line in my original post but I cut it because I didn't want to bash the Lionel engine:

"I know Lionel makes an 0-6-0 "Docksider" too but to my eyes it is too long, and I don't like how the saddle tank comes to the front of the smokebox".

Teaches me... I should have added it. Thanks for pointing out the engine though.

Beautiful thing !!!

I have a Right of Way "New York Central" Dockside Switcher. As you can see from this photo, the headlight number boards weren't changed from B&O #97 and the B&O logo is visible under the #9053 on the nose. Always likes the model.

@RSJB18 posted:

Wow John- you were able to fit all of that under the shell?

No sound, and removing the existing conventional reverse board gave room for the MC-II.  I think it's safe to say there's no extra room under the shell!  The huge PS/1 smoke unit takes up a LOT of space, putting a smaller smoke unit in might give enough room for sound.

This is the module to automatically turn off the smoke when stopped, it's in the heatshrink above.

@Shawn_Chronister posted:

I have one of these and have wondered how to make it command? You mind sharing how you did it? I have always like this little guy.

Here's a thread with pictures of what I did for the locomotive.

MTH B&O Docksider 0-4-0 Command Upgrade

I have more modern parts now for the smoke control.

Here's the MTH B&O Docksider pulling 13 tank cars up the 2.5% grade, I probably could have added a few.

Good choice for my track cleaning car, it has no issues hauling this around the layout.  I hasten to point out the new Lionel LC+ 2.0 0-6-0T Docksider can't pull the Trackman 2000 on level track, much less the grade!

That why I like this little guy and will CC it. Its tiny engine with muscle.

@Shawn_Chronister posted:

That why I like this little guy and will CC it. Its tiny engine with muscle.

The only regret is I can't fit cruise into it.

Man, I wish my MTH docksider didn't decide to throw a rod and dequarter itself... The grooved wheels make it sound like a Formula 1 racecar but it weighed as much as a brick and could pull 7-8 cars. Might need to see about getting it fixed now.

B&O Dockside was my first HO model - maybe 1948?  Lately I have tried to duplicate my HO collection in O gauge, mostly 17/64" scale.  The Dockside is last on my list, and I am about 3/4 of the way there.  Mine is the wood cab version - apparently didn't last long.

When I was a kid I had a B&O Docksider, which was no doubt a cheapie (Bachman? Tyco? can't remember) but it was one of my favorites!

This is my MTH B&O Docksider that I picked up off the Bay.  I weathered this critter to give it the "been working hard for decades" look.  I've had this engine for about 15 years and it's never given me a problem in that it ALWAYS runs.  The smoke unit stopped working a couple years ago, however,  I'm good with no smoke.    The grooves in the wheels don't bother me at all.  This engine  has served countless hours on my Mountain Division usually pulling 3 - 4 diecast cars.  At other times serving on my mainline pulling 5 - 8 cars ... and I know it will pull more ... I would think the prototype pulled 5 - 6 loaded cars max.   I love this engine!!

I have both the MTH and the ROW Dockside locos. Both are fine as far as I am concerned.

ROW:

MTH (before weathering):

MTH (after weathering)

Tom

Here is mine- 3/4 done; 17/64 scale, wood cab version:

At the California rail fair in 1991, there was a real docksider in steam.

They had huge cardboard letters on the sides of the tank that said "VARNEY."

It was a real hoot! I love it when people have a sense of humor.

Here is our tank engine at the Pioneer Tunnel in Ashland Pa.  I use to volunteer there and ran this engine, the HENRY CLAY.  Here are some pics.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The only regret is I can't fit cruise into it.

John- I remember researching these for Switch Saturday several years ago. This wiki article mentions that two of the 4 original 0-4-0's were given tenders in later years.

Here's a picture of # 96 after the conversion.

Might be hope yet for cruise and sound.......

@RSJB18 posted:

John- I remember researching these for Switch Saturday several years ago. This wiki article mentions that two of the 4 original 0-4-0's were given tenders in later years.

Here's a picture of # 96 after the conversion.

Might be hope yet for cruise and sound.......

Takes the whole idea of a compact self-contained engine and tosses it away.

Seems like the railroad was willing to sacrifice access in tight areas for longer running times (efficiency) by having tenders carrying more fuel/water. I seem to remember that experiment didn't last too long.

As a youngster, I got a hand-me-down HO Dockside loco from a relative.

Tom

Two more.  AHM/Rivarrossi HO docksider:

And the Rex S Scale docksider:

Rusty

One problem with the MTH Docksider is that it never was available with DCS.  AFter much study, I concluded that the PS3 unit that is in the 44-tonner would fit into it.  I often discussed with a now-departed MTH person that they ought to make one.  I was on the verge of converting mine, but the cost of buying a 44T just to obtain the Board and other parts (such as lights) parts turned me off.  The fact that its lack of traction tires rendered it incapable to hailing many cars also turned me away.

I grew up in Baltimore, and the Docksider was the first real steam engine that I saw up close (being held up by my father). The Varney H0 was the first kit I assembled (and my entry into H0 scale - big mistake!) Couldn't afford the ROW when it came out, but did find the MTH Jersey Central set at a super price ($70!!) at York when it came out. Yep, it's noisy, and not well detailed, but it's still a favorite. I wish that whoever has the dies to it now would bring out a Railking "Imperial" version with detailed side linkages, etc. But probably not. At least I've got this one.

Thank you all. This has been an enjoyable thread to read.

@RSJB18 posted:

I have three of the MTH 0-4-0's (B&O, NYC, and no road name). Great little engines. The ROW models are much nicer and more detailed but pound for pound you can't beat the MTH. They are conventional with electronic e-units. My biggest complaint is that MTH scored the drive wheels for traction instead of using a tire. They sound like a sick washing machine running around the layout.

Yes, they make a unique sound traveling the layout, but I must say, its one heck of a smoker!

Years ago, I was lucky enough to buy one off of a train shop owners layout, that he had broken out of a set to display.

One of the reasons you see so many of these in HO is that the original Varney tooling dates to 1941 and they offered it in nearly every catalog until they sold the tooling to Life Like around 1965.  Life Like continued to manufacturer it until the 1980's when they started upgrading their line of trains. 

@laz1957 posted:

Here is our tank engine at the Pioneer Tunnel in Ashland Pa.  I use to volunteer there and ran this engine, the HENRY CLAY.  Here are some pics.

I loved vising there many times with friends and family--thanks for the safe carriage! Lots of fun, especially peering across the valley over to the bizarre Centralia fire burning for as long as I have been alive!