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I'm a great believer in BCRs. When Proto-2 Engines go through a "Shut Down" procedure, information is transferred from the Engine to the Remote. If your Battery is bad, many times the info. does not get stored properly and the next time you attempt a "Start Up" you will either get "No Engine Found" or "Engine Not On Track." BCRs take care of this.

 

One of my customers had a roster of MTH Engines and was having many headaches with them. The fix was to replace all Batteries. I'm still in contact with him and it is still working.

 

Good luck and regards, Bob Barth

This is an issue comparable to whether a Ford or Chevy is better--lot's of non-agreement.  Personally, I have never had a problem with batteries.  I have replaced 2 or 3 since getting my first PS2, about when DCS came out.  I use the trains enough to keep batteries reaosnably charged.  I am not willing to spend the money it would take to replace the batteries in my 20 PS2 locos with BCRs.  On the other hand, GunrunnerJohn "rolls his own" capacitors and is happy.  If you rareley run traisn, a BCR may be worth looking into.  MTH NiCad batteries (8.4 volt) last me well over 6 years.  I haven't replaced any 2.4 volt batteries, which I've been using since the upgrasde kits came out.

 

Usually even a pretty well shot battery will hold enough power to accomplish the shut down data storage.  A total internal failure would of course preclude this.

Originally Posted by RJR:

This is an issue comparable to whether a Ford or Chevy is better--lot's of non-agreement.  Personally, I have never had a problem with batteries.  I have replaced 2 or 3 since getting my first PS2, about when DCS came out.  I use the trains enough to keep batteries reaosnably charged.  I am not willing to spend the money it would take to replace the batteries in my 20 PS2 locos with BCRs.  On the other hand, GunrunnerJohn "rolls his own" capacitors and is happy.  If you rareley run traisn, a BCR may be worth looking into.  MTH NiCad batteries (8.4 volt) last me well over 6 years.  I haven't replaced any 2.4 volt batteries, which I've been using since the upgrasde kits came out.

 

Usually even a pretty well shot battery will hold enough power to accomplish the shut down data storage.  A total internal failure would of course preclude this.

One What kind of Price are we looking at and Two Where in the world can I find them

Originally Posted by Bbbobbb:

I'm a great believer in BCRs. When Proto-2 Engines go through a "Shut Down" procedure, information is transferred from the Engine to the Remote. If your Battery is bad, many times the info. does not get stored properly and the next time you attempt a "Start Up" you will either get "No Engine Found" or "Engine Not On Track." BCRs take care of this.

 

One of my customers had a roster of MTH Engines and was having many headaches with them. The fix was to replace all Batteries. I'm still in contact with him and it is still working.

 

Good luck and regards, Bob Barth

What you described has never happened to me or any of my train friends. I have had dcs from the beginning and Never once ever heard that happening. 

 

Changing batteries in PS2 is no big deal, and my batteries last on the avg of about 10 years. 

 

As stated before bcr's are a total waste of money on ps2 and later. There is no need for them. 

Originally Posted by Barry Broskowitz:

 in early 5 volt PS2 engines. If the engine isn't allowed to wait 30-45 seconds before for the BCR to charge before operating the engine, damage to the PS2 board may result.

 

Barry, what constitutes "operating"?  Do you mean that the 30-45 second BCR charge period has to be  before "Start-Up"?

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Barry Broskowitz:

However, it turns out that, according to a very trusted source who sought out and received confirmation from MTH service, a BCR can actually damage the PS2c board in early 5 volt PS2 engines. If the engine isn't allowed to wait 30-45 seconds before for the BCR to charge before operating the engine, damage to the PS2 board may result.

 

Barry,

If a low charge BCR can cause damage to 5 volt PS2 engines, do you believe a low battery can cause damage also?

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

Well, if it's running under DCS, the sounds shouldn't be coming on until I actually press the startup button.  I have BCR's in some PS/2 5V engines, that's what they do.

 

That's my point.   I put the BCR loco on the track, turn up the voltage, hit Start-Up, then wait the 30 seconds to charge before sending "commands" like speed or sound.

 

But if Start-Up is considered an operation command, then according to Barry I may be risking damage to 5 V board.

 

Should the 30-40 second charge period come before or after Start Up?

It would seem from Barry's comments that it makes a big difference.

 

Thanks

 

     Well I'm not getting rid of my BCR's and I've never experienced problems with them. Just because a repairman receives an engine with a BCR installed doesn't mean it was the cause of the problem. The only engine (PS1) that I had with a charging problem had a battery in it and it was before BCR's were made.

Originally Posted by RJR:

That you've spent a lot of money on BCR's [kidding]. 

 

As I said near the top oif this thread, it's like decision whether to drive a Chevy or a Ford.

RJR,

The only trouble is the ford's and chevy's have batteries. It would be great if someone made a BCR for them and used a solar charger to keep them powered up when they're not in use.

I will be working on a "charge/discharge" circuit for the BCR charging problem.

 

By adding a small diode and resistor in the BCR charging circuit it is possible to reduce the inrush current when charging.  One diode is used with a small resistor value to allow charging at a reduced inrush current. Another diode in opposite polarity will allow discharging of the BCR once the BCR is fully charged. I will be testing this circuit concept with several BCRs from different manufacturers.

 

Remember the sole purpose of the BCR is to keep the engine's control circuits alive when track power is removed or lost.

Well, they have a super-cap, so it would be interesting to see what they have done.  It's easy to implement, and I doubt it would affect the function of the 5V boards at all, not so sure about the 3V boards.  The 5V boards charge to close to 9V on the battery, so they have plenty of headroom for the 5V regulator, I don't know about the 3V boards.  You have to account for the diode drop when discharging.  A Schottky diode would probably be my choice for the isolation, just to lower the voltage drop.  I'm thinking a pretty low value resistor is sufficient, on the order of 10-25 ohms. 

 

The shame of it all is that MTH knows exactly what the situation is, but they're remaining mum.

Dale, it's a potential problem, I haven't seen it actually affect any of the PS/2 stuff I have BCR's or BCR clones in, but that's only 8 or 9 pieces.

 

Basically, the supercap appears as close to a dead short when it's totally discharged until it starts to charge.  The speculation is that might damage the charging electronics, and several people have claimed to have that kill the electronics.  Whether it was that issue that caused the problem, or something else, is open to speculation.

Hi John

 

I would think the dead short would be a brief event with a totally discharged capacitor circuit.  Most charging circuits limit current draw anyway and/or have chips which shut themselves down if they overheat. (the common  V10 chip for instance).  Not sure what the PS1 or 2 charging circuits are made of since it is proprietary.

 

A lot of times people have trouble with an engine and replace a battery with a BCR after it has already been damaged trying to charge a faulty battery. The damage is then erroneously blamed on the BCR.

 

At any rate I have not experienced any issues with PS1 locos and BCRs and I have a lot of them. I guess if it was a concern you could install an inrush surge suppressor or put a few ohms of resistance in the circuit.

 

Dale H

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