Bessemer & Lake Erie AS-616

I always liked the AS-616   Erie had a few of them and were later painted in Erie Lackawanna Black scheme  Wish MTH would do it with PS3

As far as I know MTH has not yet done the AS-616 with PS/3, but it was made with PS/2 as a Rail King Scale item. I have one in B&LE, which is awaiting redecoration to Milwaukee Road livery. 

Here is the Rail King version of the B&LE AS-616:  It is MTH/RailKing #30-2381-1

(Why did they give it road number 410?  B&LE only had engines 408 and 409.) 

MTH/RailKing #30-2381-1

Engine no. 410

Features - Die-Cast Truck Sides, Pilots and Fuel Tank
- Colorful Paint Scheme
- Metal Chassis
- Metal Handrails and Decorative Horn
- Intricately Detailed ABS Body
- Metal Wheels, Axles and Gears
- (2) Remotely Controlled Proto-Couplersr
- (2) Precision Flywheel Equipped Motors
- Directionally Controlled Headlights
- Locomotive Speed Control - Proto-Sound 2.0 With The Digital Command System Featuring:- Freight Yard Proto-Effects - Unit Measures:14 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 3 3/4" - Operates On O-31 Curves

thx for posting -- I love seeing B&LE units modeled.  I see the prototype on occasion crossing over Route 28 on the way to/from work.

No one has done the similar 6-4-1500 I seek.

I have the Premier version of the B&LE AS-616. The MTH Product Number is 20-2134-1.  I do not have the RailKing version.

My Premier version has an overall length of 13-7/8 inches over the foot boards. (Coupled length is 14-1/2 inches.)

The later RailKing version appears to be the same casting as my Premier version.

I would expect that the RailKing chassis is also about the same as the Premier edition except for the Proto 2 circuit boards.

Note: I would be interested in any photos of the prototype B&LE AS-616 engine.

I will have some photos of my Premier version later this week.

One of the best engines I have is an MTH AS616, which was PS-1, converted to PS-2 by Chuck Sartor when he was with Mizell Trains in Denver.  It is a real brute -- will pull everything I couple to it, and it is extremely reliable.

I had an all-day ride on a pair of AS616's on the Trona Railway years ago.  The WABCO air throttle was quite interesting.

Modifications to my Premier version of the B&LE AS-616:

1. I plan to add Plastruct O scale Diamond Plate to the walkways of the MTH model.

I will use PLA-91684 by PLASTRUCT Scale Plastic Pattern Sheet - Diamond Plate (O scale).

2. I also plan to change out the headlights with LEDs.

Plastruct Diamond Plate:

Nate Clark's Bessemer book has some good 616 photos in it.  I think there is even a black one with safety stripes.

Dave

Modifications to my Premier version of the B&LE AS-616:

 

1. I plan to add Plastruct O scale Diamond Plate to the walkways of the MTH model.

 

I will use PLA-91684 by PLASTRUCT Scale Plastic Pattern Sheet - Diamond Plate (O scale).

OR a simpler way is to use the Archer transfer decals:

http://www.archertransfers.com/AR88042.html

I was wondering if anyone had tried to put 4 axle trucks under one. I have the MTH Katy diesel, but they, like the Missouri Pacific, only had the 4 axle model, not the 6 axle trucks.

I would guess it would be out of proportion with the 4 axle truck. Haven't seen any dimensions as to what the difference is between the two models, AS616 and the AS16.  

Dan

Here's a photo of one of the ealier 6-6-1500's, taken at Conneaut in '67.  Note the lack of MU;  the 400's were heavy switchers, not road power.

Best rgds, SZ

Here are the details for the Baldwin AS-16 diesel with B-B trucks:

The Baldwin AS-16 was a diesel-electric locomotive of the road switcher type rated at 1,600 hp (1,200 kW), that rode on two-axle trucks, having a B-B wheel arrangement. It was the successor to Baldwin's DRS-4-4-1500 model, and remained in production until Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton quit the locomotive manufacturing business in 1956.

I have attached a drawing of the AS-616 (with C-C trucks) with dimensions. The length of the AS-616 over the pulling faces is 58 feet which translates to 14-1/2 inches in O scale.

I checked another reference on the internet to determine that the overall length of the AS-616 and the AS-16 is identical.

See http://www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20BLW%20AS-16.HTML

Converting the MTH AS-616 trucks from C-C to B-B style:

The Baldwin sharknose diesels have B-B trucks. I would think that the MTH sharknose B-B  trucks could be put under the MTH/RK AS-616 model to change over to the AS-16 version. Also Williams by Bachmann also has Baldwin sharks.

I have two sets of the MTH Baldwin sharks. 

The 1:48 Premier and Railking MTH AS616's are the same model; it's a packaging change. As most of us know, the "RK Scale" diesels are older Premier units not deemed up to current standards of something-or-other, etc, etc. They can be great bargains for those of us who do table-grade modeling. I wish that the concept would "trickle up" to steamers,

but I realize that there are manufacturing and customer-base differences.

As far as I know, there have been no purpose-built "RK Scale" units made by MTH - but, I'm not a huge diesel-follower, so.  

Pro-Hobby, thanks for the info,

There is a lot of space between the 4 axle trucks and the rather small fuel tank,

Now to find a set of Alco style 4 axle trucks. (believe that Baldwin used the same type B-B truck as the Alco FA and RS3's?)  

Not sure how MTH attached the six axle truck, off center or centered, That may be a problem, I will have to get the Katy Baldwin out and check it out.  

Dan

The B-B trucks from the MTH Baldwin Sharknose diesels should be usable as replacements for the C-C trucks used on the AS-616. See if you can buy a set of Baldwin B-B trucks directly from MTH. Or find a powered A or B unit MTH Shark on Ebay.

It might also be possible to work with the trucks used on the Williams Sharknose diesels.

Here is another photo of the RailKing AS-616 version from 2003. As already stated the early Premier version and the later RailKing version have the same body.  The only difference between the two releases is the Proto 1 boards vs the Proto 2 boards. 

Note: The early Premier engine had a list price of $379.95.  This Premier model was overpriced compared to the RailKing PS-2 version from 2003.

Here is a prototype photo of B&LE unit 409

The price for the RailKing version from 2003 was $299.95

Specifications for the model:

RailKing #30-2381-1

Engine no. 410

Features - Die-Cast Truck Sides, Pilots and Fuel Tank
- Colorful Paint Scheme
- Metal Chassis
- Metal Handrails and Decorative Horn
- Intricately Detailed ABS Body
- Metal Wheels, Axles and Gears
- (2) Remotely Controlled Proto-Couplersr
- (2) Precision Flywheel Equipped Motors
- Directionally Controlled Headlights
- Locomotive Speed Control - Proto-Sound 2.0 With The Digital Command System Featuring:- Freight Yard Proto-Effects - Unit Measures:14 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 3 3/4" - Operates On O-31 Curves

Not exactly, Dan.  Alco and Baldwin used the same type of truck, but not the same length. The version of the AAR Type B truck used by Baldwin had a longer wheelbase (and thus a longer outside swing hanger) than the version used by Alco.  The design and size of the Westinghouse traction motors required more space between the axles.  You can actually see the difference, but only if you know about it and are looking for it.  I am not sure if the trucks used under Sharknose units built by the 3-rail brands are the correct length.  It only matters if you are concerned about knowing that you have the absolutely correct truck.  When the engine is in motion and making that Baldwin sound, nobody is going to check your trucks for precise fidelity.

I've been waiting & waiting for someone to do a PRSL version of the AS-16.

Any manufacturers listening?

Guy

Here's my Baldwin that started life as a B&LE. I just had to change the lettering but still have to change the numbers. Paint was the same as the Milwaukee engines. It's the third engine back. Everyone's there but GM. Milwaukee will use anything and everything. Click to enlarge. 
 Don

Don,

The black line is much higher on Bessemer engines.  

I can remember pretending Milwaukee GPs were Bessemer SDs when I was younger. 

Dave

The venerable Baldwin AS616. So ugly that when it was born, they slapped the parents. Snagged one in CNW livery on eBay a couple of years ago with the plan of installing Proto-2.

Actually, the first version of the Milwaukee orange and black paint job had the orange/black line higher than the one we are more used to seeing. Not quite as high as the one on the Bessemer engine, but close. 

I looked at my MTH AS616 with an idea of changing 6 axle trucks  to 4 axle.

The 6 axle trucks mount to the motors and pivot more offset to the step ends. In looking at images of MTH RS3 4 axle trucks, they mount and pivot more offset to the inside, closer to the fuel tank. I also looked at my Weaver FA and those truck blocks would not work either.

So, those would not work out.

To make something like that happen, a new frame would have to be fabricated to mount the 4 axle trucks and the MTH Baldwin shell.

Maybe some future endeavor.

Dan

I bought it because it was such a easy fix to Milwaukee. I will change the number but not the paint. It's close enough for me. For some reason I think it looks good because it looks like a brute. Matt, how could you not like that puuuuuurrrrrty face. Don

Plastruct PLA91684 O Diamond Plate Plastic Pattern Sheet:

I use the Plastruct Diamond Plate plastic sheet material to add "non-skid" surfaces to walkways on several of my MTH and Williams engines.  This plastic sheet can be easily cut and shaped to fit the walkways on various diesels.  I paint the diamond plate metallic silver and then fasten to the model with a spray tacky adhesive.

I have added this diamond plate to my MTH B&LE AS-616 engine. Photos of the completed model coming.

Plastruct O scale Diamond Plate

Don

Here is a shot that clearly shows the difference between the two paint jobs on the Milwaukee Road AS-616. On the top one, the black barely covers the handrail and ends above the bottom of the headlight. The bottom photo shows the more commonly seen scheme with the black extending slightly below the headlight. The upper variation is very close to the MTH B&LE unit, where the black ends slightly above the handrail. I agree with you that it's plenty close enough to look like a Milwaukee Road engine once you change the herald and number. On the other hand, it's a pretty easy job to mask below the handrail and extend the black a bit downward. I haven't decided whether I will bother redoing the black when I redecorate mine; I'll most likely make the same decision you did. 

Speaking of redecorating the AS-616, were you able to get the B&LE logo off completely without damaging the paint, or did you have to match the paint? What did you use to strip the logo, and if you had to match the orange, what did you use? Thanks.