@necrails posted:How much of that very large thing contains functioning electronics? In this era of miniaturization it should not be the size of a smart car.
It's not as big as the picture makes it look.
Roughly 10.5 by 5.5 by 2.5 inches. A classic ZW is Almost 13 inches overall side to side and about 6 to 7 inches deep. As a comparison.
The new Base 3 is close in footprint size to the Legacy (990) Command base set.
@necrails posted:How much of that very large thing contains functioning electronics? In this era of miniaturization it should not be the size of a smart car.
@Chris Lord posted:It's actually not that large. Same footprint as the Base2.
necrails, perhaps you missed looking at the photos at the beginning of the thread. In one of them, you can see Dave holding the Base 3, and can judge its size. And note that it's only half as deep as it is wide. It's actually quite small. I was surprised it was so compact.
The Base 3 is 10.5 x 5.5 x 2.5. That's considerably smaller than a Postwar ZW, for example, which is 12.5 x 6.75 x 7!
@Norm Charbonneau posted:It’s good to see it out in the wild! I’m hoping that it will support new features in future Legacy releases. I’d like to be able to control every feature to my liking like lighting and sound levels. I think the app could be cool if they take advantage of a typical smart device’s features beyond just screen interaction.
Norm, you’ve hit on the primary issue for me: the app. I don’t have 100 engines, and they are all Legacy (no LC). So, unless I’m missing something, the Base3 doesn’t provide me with any additional functionality over my CAB2. However, if the app is way cool with lots of nifty features that don’t appear on my CAB2, that could provide a motivation to upgrade.
@breezinup posted:necrails, perhaps you missed looking at the photos at the beginning of the thread. In one of them, you can see Dave holding the Base 3,
I wasn't worried about the size of the CAB3 but I gotta be honest, I was distracted by the hot dog hat and didn't even notice it was in this photo. This guy is a legend in my mind.
@BillYo414 posted:This guy is a legend in my mind.
Yeah he's a real wiener. 
@MartyE posted:Thank goodness. I thought it was a requirement to operate Base3.
Directional antenna! 
@gunrunnerjohn posted:See, I'm not the only nut here!
Yup. While I may not have quite as many engines as others, I'm working on it. I haven't preordered the Base 3, but it may be an eventuality in the future. Not because I'm forced to, but out of necessity.
I haven't got many engines programmed into my Cab2, but that is mainly because of limited running radiuses currently.
That being said, yeah I am slowly working on it. I really don't see how the Base 3 is not innovative as it will definitely have more benefits that haven't yet been thought of by us consumers. People in general almost always seem to be short sighted when something arrives on the scene. What will this thing be able to do a few years after it is on the market? We can only wait and wonder.
Also, it is a great thing that Lionel and their crew(with Dave and whomever) took the time to test this at a club. What if they have already done a few of these club tests and this is the first we have heard about? The possibility of them doing more club tests I would think exist as like Ben and Chris said, get the bugs out.
If Lionel is not being innovative by someone's standards, I think they may need to check their glasses again. It may be very easy to sit behind a keyboard and type away how things don't seem to be very good, things just don't seem to be to said person's liking, well, sometimes things aren't for everyone. People are given a choice of what they like and what they don't like. There is only a little bit of wiggle room right there, so the individual is going to have to decide to shoot(with an I and not two o's) or get off the pot. It is better to say something nice when you should, and say nothing when you have nothing nice to say. Granted, yes, people have the right to voice their own opinion. For that I suggest watching Home For The Holidays and take what Charles Durning says on it about opinions.
Anyway, thanks Ben, Chris, the rest of the NJ HiRailers, and to Lionel, Dave and crew for doing this. Best things come from parties getting together to see how things work. 👍🐻🐻
@gunrunnerjohn posted:They're all going in the box with me.
It'll have to be one of those 53' containers!
Okay, I think I’ve become a bit confused in reading through this thread as it relates to 4-digit addressing and the size of some folk’s collections. In order to be assigned a three or four digit address, the engine itself has to be four digit compatible (as in fairly new), correct? So, in Ben’s case, he has 300 engines (incredible, by the way!), but he can’t store them all on the Base3 at the same time since they all aren’t 4-digit capable, right? Can they all be put in the Base3 database and then addressed with a two-digit address prior to each use? I’m trying to understand how a Base3 unit helps folks with current large collections or is it only useful for future large collections (i.e., a collection being assembled now of only new engines with 4-digit capability). I’m sorry if all of this has been explained before.
@Apples55 I found where Dave says the new app can be used with the Legacy Base and LCS WiFi module...
@mattrains posted:It seems like they were just here beta-testing the CAB-2!
Hard to believe that this was at least 15 years ago!!!
-Mat
Actually Mat that was not a Beta test Legacy was in production and released about 2 months before this picture was taken. We were having major problems with Legacy and I was asking for assistance on the forum This guy that was going by the handle NY on the forum kept answering and seemed to be an authority. I told him on the forum that if NY stood for New York we weren't that far away and invited him to come to the club . Another forum member said to me "Idiot NY is Neil Young " Duh I said he can come too He was touring at the time in Boston and got in touch with me and came the next week By that time we had most of the bugs worked out but it was a fun day Too bad there are only 2 members left from that pic besides you and your Uncle.
@Rider Sandman posted:Okay, I think I’ve become a bit confused in reading through this thread as it relates to 4-digit addressing and the size of some folk’s collections. In order to be assigned a three or four digit address, the engine itself has to be four digit compatible (as in fairly new), correct? So, in Ben’s case, he has 300 engines (incredible, by the way!), but he can’t store them all on the Base3 at the same time since they all aren’t 4-digit capable, right? Can they all be put in the Base3 database and then addressed with a two-digit address prior to each use? I’m trying to understand how a Base3 unit helps folks with current large collections or is it only useful for future large collections (i.e., a collection being assembled now of only new engines with 4-digit capability). I’m sorry if all of this has been explained before.
4 digit addressing is a forward looking thing. It doesn't do much (if anything) for older 2 digit engines. You're still limited to IDs 1-98. But, Legacy engines going forward will be 4 digit capable so our kid's kids will be fine! You also have to remember that the component availability for the Legacy Base (base2?) will become unavailable so it behooves Lionel to get ahead of that. And it also isn't just about 4 digital addressing but multisystem consolidation. And by enabling the new app it allows easy dissemination of new feature/function.
4 Digit engines also have 2 way communication. Real time fuel and water usage for steam engines and fuel usage for diesels back to the app and I assume a Cab2 as well. No more needing the sensor track to collect that data. The App and Base3 also gets it's engine information such as name, road number and the "personality" settings from the engine without a module or sensor track.
Incidentally if you watch this video I did on the WiFi monitor program, there is other information that I would think be possible to collect from 4 digit addressable engines that the sensor track does now and doesn't do anything with. Not sure if Lionel has plans for this in the new app or not.
@bluelinec4 posted:Actually Mat that was not a Beta test Legacy was in production and released about 2 months before this picture was taken. We were having major problems with Legacy and I was asking for assistance on the forum This guy that was going by the handle NY on the forum kept answering and seemed to be an authority. I told him on the forum that if NY stood for New York we weren't that far away and invited him to come to the club . Another forum member said to me "Idiot NY is Neil Young " Duh I said he can come too He was touring at the time in Boston and got in touch with me and came the next week By that time we had most of the bugs worked out but it was a fun day Too bad there are only 2 members left from that pic besides you and your Uncle.
Ahhh.. That makes sense. I only wish someone had turned the heat on earlier in the day! I remember Neil stayed bundled up!!
I also remember my brother ran over to the building, because my father told him that Neil Young was there. My brother tried to make conversation about the new (at the time) PNC Arts center, and Neil said something along the lines of "Yeah, really nice venue" then turns to me and says "Now how about we run some trains?"
Such a great memory!
Mat
@Rider Sandman posted:Norm, you’ve hit on the primary issue for me: the app. I don’t have 100 engines, and they are all Legacy (no LC). So, unless I’m missing something, the Base3 doesn’t provide me with any additional functionality over my CAB2. However, if the app is way cool with lots of nifty features that don’t appear on my CAB2, that could provide a motivation to upgrade.
I hope they do more with it than just replicate a remote. It would be cool if it was more interactive. Maybe use the camera to scan locomotive cab numbers and populate a quick roster for a run sesh. Utilize run data to suggest maintenance or recommend an engine that hasn’t run in a while. It would be kinda neat if they gamified it a bit with unlockable achievements and rewards for hitting certain milestones while using it.
@Norm Charbonneau posted:... It would be cool if it was more interactive. Maybe use the camera to scan locomotive cab numbers and populate a quick roster for a run sesh. Utilize run data to suggest maintenance or recommend an engine that hasn’t run in a while. It would be kinda neat if they gamified it a bit with unlockable achievements and rewards for hitting certain milestones while using it.
If you're one of those trying to get the rest of us to concede on the handheld remote vs. smartphone debate these suggested features would do it. They won't run on a handheld.
And they are indeed interesting.
Thanks Norm.
Mike
@MartyE posted:4 Digit engines also have 2 way communication. Real time fuel and water usage for steam engines and fuel usage for diesels back to the app and I assume a Cab2 as well. No more needing the sensor track to collect that data. The App and Base3 also gets it's engine information such as name, road number and the "personality" settings from the engine without a module or sensor track.
Incidentally if you watch this video I did on the WiFi monitor program, there is other information that I would think be possible to collect from 4 digit addressable engines that the sensor track does now and doesn't do anything with. Not sure if Lionel has plans for this in the new app or not.
The 2 way communication is a little bit of a mash up. TMCC/Legacy can only be 1 way. The 2 way data comes into the base via Bluetooth so I believe it will only work on BT enabled Legacy engines and I'm pretty sure only be displayed via the App. And besides fuel and water I'd love to see scale speed and a chronometer. And how about Legacy signal strength Dave?
So what are we supposed to do when we get over 9999 engines? I know not going to happen, but honestly I never dreamed I'd be well over 100 but here we are.
Jim
Two way communication, ability to get a locomotives information directly from the locomotive, ability to adjust the volume of different sounds independently, ability to turn off lights independently. All these things the Base 3 and new Legacy boards/software sound great. Legacy users, welcome to DCS for the past 20 years 
.
"Legacy users, welcome to DCS for the past 20 years ."
Hopefully without the quirks and puzzles/complexity of DCS .
@Lou1985 posted:Two way communication, ability to get a locomotives information directly from the locomotive, ability to adjust the volume of different sounds independently, ability to turn off lights independently. All these things the Base 3 and new Legacy boards/software sound great. Legacy users, welcome to DCS for the past 20 years
Whats next The ability to load different sound files LOL
@bluelinec4 posted:Whats next The ability to load different sound files LOL
Man I wish. For real.
@Landsteiner posted:"Legacy users, welcome to DCS for the past 20 years
Hopefully without the quirks and puzzles/complexity of DCS
Where's the fun in that?
I don't have a problem with the new Base3. As long as it operates the Legacy and earlier products.
Of course. Lionel is gonna come out with toys whose features will need a Base 3 to operate all features fully.
Only many of us ole timers won't care, if you know what I mean?
Let the new generation carry on with Base3 and whatever else. I just Hope Lionel will continue producing items that don't have to be sent back for warranty repair.
That's been the thorn in my side, which I've expressed
here strongly a few times.
Let me close by saying, it's really a good sign Dave came up to New Jersey to trouble shoot
the Base3. Thanks Dave, did ja visit any Joysey GoGo Bars.......jus kiddin
Here are more photos that I took during the Base 3 testing
A short video
@PSU1980 posted:Here are more photos that I took during the Base 3 testing
Interesting, it went through the startup sequence and then went dark, what's that all about?
Wow, I am reading this thread and can’t believe most of what I am seeing and reading. As a person who have been in the tech field for 35 years, tech manufacturing, beta testing is an absolute requirement.
Like Chris, a bunch of us used multiple devices, Iphone, IPad, Android Devices to put a massive load on the manufacturing samples which include the Base 3 and the Application.
Yes, we found issues, helped correct them, made suggestions and recommended changes / improvements where possible.
We were extremely happy with what we learned and the massive amount of data collected will make a better product.
I see people complaining about remotes, applications, backwards compatibility.
Let’s get a grip here TMCC is well over 25 years old, very long in the tooth. Most of you don’t own a car more than 5-7 years old.
This is a good move for Lionel and the hobby, The Base 3 and Cab Application will not prevent you from using Legacy remotes, it gives you options you never had before.
Open your minds as this helps bring new people into the hobby. If you were born in 1985 or later you have grown up with mobile devices - we need innovation and this is part of the process.
I have well over 100 engines and tested TMCC, Legacy, Bluetooth and while there was a hiccup or two, I was pleased with the performance. Given the magnitude of the NJHR layout, Lionel has done a good job. Will it meet everyone’s expectations, No.
When all is said and done, you either buy it because you want to or you don’t but hammering Lionel for taking a tech leap forward is not beneficial to anyone in the hobby.
There is a serious, conscious effort to make this new unit and application the gateway to future products.
Givw Lionel credit for coming to our place, NJHR layout, testing the Base 3 and the Cab 3 application and putting the testing out there. They didn’t have to publish their visit nor the fact that they used the layout to test hardware and software and we wouldn’t have told anyone of the visit if were instructed not to do it.
Clearly folks are commenting on items about this product they know little to nothing about.
Well done Lionel, Dave and the engineering team. This will make the NJHR layout better and I personally can’t wait to put it on my layout.
A few more photos of engines we tested on Tuesday and Wednesday of this week.
Gunrunner John,
We were in the process of swapping out the bases and tuning power on and off and I wasn’t ready for the power being shut down.
We did test power loss to the units just to see what happened.
Marty, you can also back up the Command Base and then use a module to upload data in the Base 3.
if I took a picture of the back of the Base 3 I will post it. Lots of upside on the Base 3.
@bluelinec4 posted:Those vending machines are the latest thing You put your money in the slot and a movable arm comes out and grabs your selection It drops it in a bin at the bottom
That sounds terrific - every train club should have one of those in their club house.
Does the machine accept credit or cash only as I'd like two Diesel engines on the fourth row from the first machine?
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:If you have not been there, I do suggest trying to get out there to see the layout in person. The HiRailers are very welcoming to anyone that comes through their doors, and their hospitality is first rate. When they had the OGR 50th Anniversary, I got to go and get the full tour as well as Ben giving the details on how everything works up top. It is definitely a stop and see experience that every train person should get out to see. I need to make another visit in the future.
The next time I'm in NJ I'm definitely going to look this club up. Too bad I'm just a tad west by 635 miles otherwise I'd stop in on Saturday!
@PSU1980 posted:Like Chris, a bunch of us used multiple devices, Iphone, IPad, Android Devices to put a massive load on the manufacturing samples which include the Base 3 and the Application.
Yes, we found issues, helped correct them, made suggestions and recommended changes / improvements where possible.
We were extremely happy with what we learned and the massive amount of data collected will make a better product.
This is a good move for Lionel and the hobby, The Base 3 and Cab Application will not prevent you from using Legacy remotes, it gives you options you never had before.
I have well over 100 engines and tested TMCC, Legacy, Bluetooth and while there was a hiccup or two, I was pleased with the performance. Given the magnitude of the NJHR layout, Lionel has done a good job. Will it meet everyone’s expectations, No.
There is a serious, conscious effort to make this new unit and application the gateway to future products.
Givw Lionel credit for coming to our place, NJHR layout, testing the Base 3 and the Cab 3 application and putting the testing out there. They didn’t have to publish their visit nor the fact that they used the layout to test hardware and software and we wouldn’t have told anyone of the visit if were instructed not to do it.
Well done Lionel, Dave and the engineering team. This will make the NJHR layout better and I personally can’t wait to put it on my layout.
A few more photos of engines we tested on Tuesday and Wednesday of this week.
Well said. As someone who did my share of system testing in my work career (as an end customer), real life testing is critical to the success of a new product. But, in the case of the NJ Hi-Railers, I think we’d have considered this stress testing As I mentioned earlier, I won’t be an early adopter (I own two 990’s and a 993), but the possibility of using the updated app with my existing CAB2 and Wi-Fi module definitely intrigues me. I’m now looking forward the the release of the CAB3 and the subsequent/inevitable discussions that will transpire here.
This is certainly exciting news!
Peter
, @laz1957
The Base 3 will Include a black module. All you need to do is transfer the entire data base of engines to the Base 3. No issues at all.
Let me see if I snapped a few shots of the back of the unit. If so, I will post them. Rest assure, your covered.
Regards,
Kevin
Does the Base 3 have a provision for an external antenna?
You might ask why anyone would need an antenna. The G&O garden railroad Legacy base is housed in a box under the layout. When operating the layout from the other side of the display, there are several tons of dirt, plants, and concrete wall between the Cab controllers and the base. The Legacy signal doesn't go through this stuff. Therefore, we have the Legacy base connected to an external antenna that enables perfect control from around the layout.
The Legacy base is located where it is because it is housed in weather proof box. We don't have anyplace else to house the box and simultaneously connect the base to the layout wiring. I know that this is a unique situation but it would be helpful if the base can be connected to an antenna.
NH Joe
@New Haven Joe posted:Does the Base 3 have a provision for an external antenna?
You might ask why anyone would need an antenna. The G&O garden railroad Legacy base is housed in a box under the layout. When operating the layout from the other side of the display, there are several tons of dirt, plants, and concrete wall between the Cab controllers and the base. The Legacy signal doesn't go through this stuff. Therefore, we have the Legacy base connected to an external antenna that enables perfect control from around the layout.
The Legacy base is located where it is because it is housed in weather proof box. We don't have anyplace else to house the box and simultaneously connect the base to the layout wiring. I know that this is a unique situation but it would be helpful if the base can be connected to an antenna.
NH Joe
It doesn't at this time but that was one of the big changes we talked to Dave about. We're keeping our fingers crossed!
@Chris Lord posted:It doesn't at this time but that was one of the big changes we talked to Dave about. We're keeping our fingers crossed!
Chris, Thanks for your reply. This would be very helpful for us. Sometimes you just don't have an option to locate a base unit in an optimal location. NH Joe
@PSU1980 posted:Marty, you can also back up the Command Base and then use a module to upload data in the Base 3.
if I took a picture of the back of the Base 3 I will post it. Lots of upside on the Base 3.
That must be new. We can't save the database to a module on Legacy only multi-engine modules. We have to use LSU now for the entire database and save it to a PC.
I assume it carries over all the accessories, switch data, train data , etc.?
This should help making it easier for folks if that’s the case.
Thanks!
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