Better WIDE radius 3 rail track for carpet layouts

Lionel Fastrack has a 084 inch curve listed.

TEX

Steve

I'll second the FasTrack recommendation.

The odd thing with O84 FT is that it's 32 pieces to a circle, not 16 like the O72.

Since you mentioned funds, I figured this could be important information.  It's probably going to cost somewhere north of $120 just to make a circle and then you will need some straights also to make your oval.

-Dave

I'm not a huge Fasttrack fan, but in this case it really is the best option.

1, Looks:  Very good. Best tie spacing/size in class.

2, Mechanical: Again, the best in class, able to withstand repeated use.

3, Electrical: Very good, solid, and able to withstand repeated use.

4, Cons: More noise compared to other, in class options. Rail looks: other options have better-looking rails.

Charlie

Another option, albeit "non-ballasted", is to use either Ross or Gargraves wide-radius sectional. Ross has sectional up to 64" radius (O-128); Gargraves has up to 69" radius (O-138). If your carpet is low pile, the track should be fine and shouldn't get into anything. Ross also sells roadbed for their track.

MTH Realtrax comes in 082

Realtrax O-82 or O-84 Fastrack is the easiest option that might help, Tiffany.  On a carpet layout the Fastrack noise issue won't be a problem, and its quick and easy to set up with its built in clips and pins at each end..  But frankly the Texan will look only a tad better on these curves, which are at most a foot wider - a 17% improvement in diameter, than O-72. 

To make a really noticeable difference you need to go to go all the way to the Ross O-128 or Gargraves O-138 that AGHRMatt suggested.  they make close to a 100% improvement in diameter.  But allowing a little room on each side, those curves fit only in a room at least 14 feet wall to wall - takes up a lot of space.  An option somewhat in the middle is Atlas O-99 which gives a 38% improvement in diameter.  Again, it does not have a roadbed built in but Atlas sells roadbed inserts.

Why not use Gargraves flex track and bend it to any radii you wish?

Use this flex track bender to make exactly what ever size circle your room can  handle:

If you adjust the dial as you roll a piece of track, with a little practice you can make spirial transition sections.

Also handy for reverse rolling to straighten out flex track.

It will provide a perfectly smooth, consistently round piece of MTH, Atlas or GG track in about one minute.

Realtrax O-82 is a good option. I have a few S turns on my layout with it and like it. It looks good and affordable.

Atlas O makes road bed for their 3 rail track system.

I would love to see Lionel offer Fastrack in the next wider diameter:  O-96, and offer turnouts in that diameter as well.  My layout space will only allow a minimum of O-60 governing diameter, but I use wider diameter for easements and special areas.  But my next layout ....

K-Line used to make traditional style tubular track out to 0-120. They are out of business, but the track shows up once in a while at train shows or on eBay. 

Hello guys and gals..........

Does Atlas make roadbed inserts for the #6014 0-99 curves ?  Who sells Ross sectional track and do they have website ?  I think the widest space I have is 0-100 max.

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

Tiffany, Since you already have RealTrax, your least expensive option is RealTrax O-82 curves from MTH.

You might find mixing them (alternating or as easements) with O-72 works as well.

I've found that some scenic items in front of the curves makes much of the ugly go away.

I could be wrong about this, but I believe the Atlas O roadbed selection is fairly limited and quite costly.

My personal choice for a carpet layout--and I had fairly extensive experience with that type of layout when I first moved back to Ohio--would certainly be FasTrack.  I had used RealTrax regularly on several layouts since it was first introduced, and then changed over to FasTrack because of ease of assembly/disassembly, reliable electrical continuity, and the operational reliability of the switches.

hello Russell and Allan, guys.........

Yes the cost is a BIG factor for us on our fixed income and I still have MTH RealTrax pieces and the cheapest cost for us would be the 0-82's as I already have the full circle of 0-72's and 5 30" inch straights.   I would just need to purchase a full circle of 0-82's and sell the 0-72's here in this forums.  The 0-72's curves are in like new condition,all of the copper contact springs are good not bend or broken off on all 16 pieces. They are hollow rails.   Should I sell them first then use the funds to purchase the 0-82's ?  If interested let me know.

The woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

And I have a full circle of 084 FasTrack and six 30" straights looking for a home. Let me know if you're interested. I'll give you the best price I can.

Gilly

I have a lot of different tracks that I have tried and used for quick carpet type show setups.

If you could find some old k-Line Super snap this is great RMT only sells up to 0-72 right now ask when larger stuff would be avaiable it is the old Super snap done by RMT

http://www.readymadetoys.com/susntruma520.html

I have used Gargraves but you have to do a bit of work to keep it laying flat, and it does not hold to a perfect circle tends to slip out a bit wider when used a lot better if screwed down for a layout then stays  flat.

As for the Fastrak; I have a huge box of it comes with the sets and this would be the last choice for me for any layout or short term carpet layout;

To respond to the above comments

1, Looks:  Very good. Best tie spacing/size in class. Strongly disagree the flat straight sides of the rail does not look like real rail and very bright.

2, Mechanical: Again, the best in class, able to withstand repeated use.

Wrong I have had a number of tabs come loose and not hold the track together in repeated use, the track tends to come loose in use as tabs wear with use.

3, Electrical: Very good, solid, and able to withstand repeated use.

Wrong some of the worst for this on the market, I have to put in lots of power jumpers for the temporary carpet use if any size for the layout. Small loop or oval sometimes OK but the tabs do not always hold tight and looses power someone I saw a family with a loop actually had burn marks in the carpet from the track arching with not staying tight together.

4, Cons: More noise compared to other, in class options. Rail looks: other options have better-looking rails. More noise there is nothing else on the market in track that is as noisy as this track, I never use it if I can help it. Yard storage track where nothing moves and do not need good electrical conduct that is all that I use mine for if a big show I am doing keep the track to small loops to reduce the problems but always have to go back in during the weekend and keep tighting up some joints they come loose in use.This track is really loud even on carpet.

Something you could consider is to take some track like Gargraves good price and mount it on large wood curves for a base cut out for 4x8 sheets of plywood. Cut as long as possible and screw track to this.(use some cork or sound deadening under it) and then some tabs and pins to hold the wood sheets together when joined. The Gargraves maintains excellent contact with the pins.

I had some of this for large show layouts but big and hard to take to shows when I found a lot of K-Line Super Snap I lvoe this stuff works great, good contact.

Have a large set up I do roll out a couple of rolls of green carpet and set up several loops of Supersnap in 12' x 22' space at several shows a year. Loops from 0-120 / 96 / 84?/ 72 and smaller loops.

If I run out have more trains a bigger display kids area for kids to run trains do a few loops of Fastrak but always problems every time with it coming apart! And keep it well away from other track because of the noise!

KJ Posted:

1, Looks:  Very good. Best tie spacing/size in class. Strongly disagree the flat straight sides of the rail does not look like real rail and very bright.

KJ, name another track (that fit the criteria of the original question) that has better tie spacing and tie size.

2, Mechanical: Again, the best in class, able to withstand repeated use.

Wrong I have had a number of tabs come loose and not hold the track together in repeated use, the track tends to come loose in use as tabs wear with use.

Mine, and many others it sounds like, have a much different experience with repeated use than you seem to have. Again, name this track that you speak of that is so forgiving in repeated use. 

3, Electrical: Very good, solid, and able to withstand repeated use.

Wrong some of the worst for this on the market, I have to put in lots of power jumpers for the temporary carpet use if any size for the layout. Small loop or oval sometimes OK but the tabs do not always hold tight and looses power someone I saw a family with a loop actually had burn marks in the carpet from the track arching with not staying tight together.

From our testing, your observation is not accurate. Also, unlikely story about the burn marks.

For the sake of the rest of the forum members, please list all the better track systems with better electrical connectivity...there must be a bunch by the way you describe the situation you have witnessed.

The Gargraves maintains excellent contact with the pins.

This is factually incorrect information.

I found a lot of K-Line Super Snap I lvoe this stuff works great, good contact.

I found a lot of K-Line Super Snap I lvoe this stuff works great, good contact.

Ok, here is something we agree on...kind of.

How do you keep the track together when (not if) the tabs break? Especially with all the repeated use you are claiming. I agree the Super Snap has good contact when new, not as good as Fastrack, but good nonetheless.

Charlie

I will add a bit here.

MTH sells a pack of track clips for older track that is losing it's tight snap together feel. After all, it's a plastic connection, it will eventually wear with use.

The Clips make the track extremely rigid at the connections.

PROOF?

I have used them to make an unsupported siding over air with the track.

It is spanning a 3'+ wide gap in benchwork at my crawlunder.

(I needed longer length on my siding due to added cars on the consist)

A full consist of cars are parked on it constantly.

After a couple years now it's still in use !!! I do avoid running an engine out there.

I have never had to touch it except to replace it after stealing part of it for the Christmas layout.

So to be perfectly accurate, the clips have been removed and re-installed annually.

hello guys and gals..........

Does anyone have a Texan type engine and MTH 0-82 curves ? I know Lee Willis has both and wondering if can take a picture of the engine on the 0-82's where it shows 3 blind center drivers outside the rails ?  I wanted to see how bad it is before purchasing the 16 sections of realtrax 0-82's.  I have realtrax 0-72's and its really bad.  Perhaps someone else can do that ?

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

I'm on a business trip, Tiffany, and not at home where I can take pictures.  When I get back home I'll try to set up both of the Texans I have and shoot a picture.  I have Atlas 84" curves actually, not MTH 82" but no matter.  The increase to 84" from 72" it makes little difference in the look - still get blind drivers completely off the rails. If 84" Fastrack or 82" MTH will fit your available space, and you have to buy track anyway, I'd go for the biggest diameter you can fit.  But if you already have 72" and are simply thinking to replace it with 84" or 82" in the hopes of seeing a difference, I wouldn't bother - a lot of money to spend for very, very little difference in appearance.  Sorry I can't provide a picture right now . . .

Hello Lee Willis and guys..........

That's ok, I take your word for it.  I kind of knew that 0-82's won't be much of a improvement as you said 17% in diameter bigger than 0-72's which is not much at all. I guess Atlas #6014 (0-99) 38% bigger in diameter than 0-72 would be better than nothing or maybe Atlas #6016 (0-108)?  Except I have to find a way to make it useable for carpet operation ,any ideas ( stronger rail joiners, easy home made roadbed etc. ) and measured the apt living room space (157" by 204" wall to wall). Maybe use the #6016 0-108 curves ?.  Who would have the best prices on the Atlas track as the Western depot's prices are high as I can only afford few sections at a time. I can sell the realtrax o-72's and 30 inch straights if anyone is interested ?

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

Lionel SHOULD make 16 sections for its 084 circle instead of those RIDICULOUS short 32 sections! 

The larger the radius you are comfortable going with the better the engine will run and look when going around the curves.

If you are going for larger radius curves the Gargraves is fine for connections just pinch the ends of the track so when pins are inserted they are tight to connect. Works well for a carpet layout if the carpet pile is not too long.

www.gargraves.com

I took a look at the many types of track that I have and compared some sizes with the real tracks.

So for the following tie width and tie spacing in milimeters

Real track sidings; 200/609

Real track main line 220/460 to 510

Lionel Fastrack 200/480

MTH Scale track 240/768

K-Line Super Snap 325/720

Atlas 216/576

Gargraves again you can adjust the tie spacing on the flex track 384/768

The thin center rail stuff 240/720

Here are some photos of tracks;

Real tracks I measured a siding and mainline

For the Super snap track that I like the best for quick carpet setups.

Note if a tab breaks (to date none have and all maintain good electrical contact)

You can just slide in the pins to hold them together.

http://www.easterndepot.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=ED&Category_Code=ST

Eastern Depot shows some 81 inch curves on the website.

http://www.westerndepot.com/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_description=1&keywords=supersnap&osCsid=e01ca69fe84fa8dd7b144d053e603faf&categories_id=&manufacturers_id=&ptype=&extra_value_id6=9&extra_value_id10=&=Quick+Find

Western Depot has some 120 Supersnap

The prices on both are cheaper then anything else you can get and it works well and stays together.

http://www.readymadetoys.com/susntruma520.html

RMT has the straights and soon will have the older larger track loops available.

Some different types of track on the market;

 First photo top to bottom, then next photos left to right order of track type;

 MTH Scaletrack, Not sure what this is older stuff had a thin blade for centre rail, Atlas, Fastrak Lionel, Supersnap old K-Line RMT now makes it, Gargraves, old Lionel track.

If  you click on the photos you can see larger images

An O84 section costs approximately as much as an O72 section (depending where you buy).  So using O84 FasTrack will cost almost twice as much as O72.

You will note in the bottom photo (posted above of track types) the rails that look the most real are the MTH Scaletrack, Atlas and Gargraves. Fastrack on the ends  you can see why it is so noisy the hard open oval over the hard plastic with little tabs sticking up to hold it in line this creates a hollow sound chamber that amplifies the sounds on the rails and cannot be fixed even with carpet under the bottom of the road bed.

All other tracks shown do not have this problem are not loud in operation.

Also looking at the ends of the track the Supersnap is as high as the Fastrack so good on carpet.

 As I said I set up several temporary layouts a year, have been doing this for many years first with Gargraves then Fastrak then mostly K-Line Super Snap the layouts shown here are the average of what I set up bigger or smaller. Perhaps 4-6 displays per year at train shows etc.

Below most of the track is the K-Line Supersnap.

In the front of the bottom photo I have the Fastrack on the cement at other locations I have used underlay.

The Supersnap is the most reliable that I use no problems at all and so far after a few years no tabs broken if they do I can use the track pins.

on my home layout have most tracks shown above used on the layout. Due to the problems have removed all the Fastrack just use it for sidings storage no power on the tracks.

Most of the time when I set up I roll out my 2 rolls of nice grass green carpet for 12'x22' Then put on 2 loops of 0-120, then 1 each of 0-96, 0-81, 0-72, 0-54 smaller stuff in the middle.

All the other track systems I have used have worked well and been very reliable.

If you can afford it, another option would be to keep the O72 curves and use them to expand the layout.

I have not liked my MTH track but I did find the track clips to function like Russell says.  Very good reinforcement.

hello kj356...........

I saw the prices of K-line supersnap 120 inch curves at western depot and they are reasonable too but don't see any supersnap long straights ? I can use those . maybe a trade realtraxs for the supersnaps ?

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

Tiffany:

Let us all know what track you choose and post pictures as you move alone with your oval.

Charlie

Hello Charlie..........

I was looking for the lowest prices on ANY track system with at least 0-99 or higher curves that can be use on the carpet but at first I thought of buying realtrax 0-82's as I have 5 pieces of 30 inch straights for it . According to Lee its only a 17% improvement on radius from 0-72's to 0-82's and still not enough for a large Texan with 74 inch drivers.  I thought of getting Atlas 0-99 curves but they are expensive and they are not really able to be use on the carpet.  Then forum member kj356 talked about the K-line 0-120 supersnap and the prices is reasonable but no supersnap long straights for it and the rails are high enough to be use on the carpet.  I am still back to square one on this problem !!!!!.

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

I saw a post at one point somewhere (Maybe even on this forum.) that someone took the track they liked the look of, and cut wood to fit under them.  Doing so allowed him to use open track on any thickness carpet.  To make things simple, I think he did do the curves as 1/8's.  So if there are 16 pieces per circle, he had 2 screwed to the wood.  This also allowed him to ballast it.  It looked sharp.

I know that FasTrack doesn't have wide enough curves for you, but I wanted to say that I use FasTrack for my carpet layouts and it works great.  I have experienced some loss of electrical conductivity, but that is due to not being careful when putting together or taking apart the track.  Once I realized I was spreading the rails, I was more careful, and none of the track I've bought since then has had any issues.  And I make and take down "layouts" a lot.

But now that I own a house, and am planning a layout, I'm going to go with a permanent layout.  I was planning FasTrack, but seeing the above photos of other tracks, there are sure some nice looking options.  But I need to stick with O-36 and O-48 curves and O-36 switches, which keeps me in FasTrack.

I'd sure like to see photos of this wondrous locomotive you are wanting to run.

Tiffany,

I don't know if you are able to go to train shows or swap meets but once you decide on what track systems you would be interested in, I'd try looking there to pick up some used pieces in good condition.  That should help on the price.  You can also look on e-bay and post an ad here in the "Wanted to Buy" forum.  I am sure someone here (eventually) will have some track that will work for you.

Either way, I think if you decide what you're going for, it will make it easier on you.

Don't forget that you can use track from multiple vendors.  When I had my "around the basement" loop I had a good deal of RealTrax but not nearly enough to make it around the basement.  I bought a couple of adapter tracks and used Lionel O-Gauge track for the rest of the loop.  I felt that it was better to have the loop and run trains on it than to worry about how the track looked.

Another thing...  Try not to feel too constrained by having those 5 30 inch straights.  I think you'll be happier in the long run if you focus on which track gives you the look and curve radius you want and then going from there.

Again I highly very highly recommend the Super Snap.

I did post the links for all the track you need.

RMT has the straights in several lenghts short to long at the best prices!

http://www.readymadetoys.com/susntruma520.html

20/30/40 inch straights available.

Think Western Depot had the shorter straghts.

If you ever have a problem with the tabs you can just insert the track pins.

Works just fine.

The Supersnap goes together well stays together good power conduct in the layouts I set up I the largest 2 loops get 2 power feeds and run long trains with DSC having good signal with head end mid train and pushers running and all getting a reliable signal DCS can be picky at times.

The Super snap as you can see in the photos has a good height same as Fastrack so OK for carpet.

The one disadvantage over Atlas for example is the rail profile is round so  less contact area then Atlas that has the flat rail tops.

The bigger the radius the better a big steamer will run and look and larger your layout.

At a recent train show I found a box of curves and box of the short 10 " straights  new in the box for each $20 a box. It is still out there and I am sure more hobby shops have it in stock if you hunt a bit but with the links above that I posted you have more then enough choice of track.

RMT is again making it and says they will be bringing back some of the larger Radius curves.

All the tracks that I have posted in above pics I have both on my home layout and what I set up at shows.

The Super snap has given we several years of trouble free use at show setups.

.......buy a smaller engine.....they make railking texans-jim