Biggest Mysteries in the Hobby?

Meh I like the light silver 1996 Vanderbilt. The best explanation I heard was that the silver was the lettering color of the real Vanderbilt. They thought it was the body color

The biggest mystery to me is why they can't come up with a more reliable coupler

Mine is the question I brought up a few years back......

Why does a 1/24 scale die cast model car sell for $9.99....has many more parts, many more screws, much more detailed paint and tampo, has more operating features and weighs more than a O scale Atlas Trainman box car but the box car sells for $54.

I know about the different markets, wider appeal etc etc etc.......

I still insist that a lower price on the box car would allow for more sales to the point you could get within $20 range......still double the car with twice the raw materials and labor.

Made in the same region of the same country I do not see the price difference other than a 'what the market will bear' price structure. That's my mystery. 

My photo is a $9.99 die cast police car and a Atlas IR box car.....question is the same...

The Silver Commodore Vanderbilt (777) was one of many 'goofs' of the Moreau era.

Must have been chaos during those years. Other examples are the pink girls train that was supposed to have a AC motor like the original and was made with a DC motor, The NYC 4-8-2 that had bad electronics, the Backshop that didn't work properly and was made of too thin tin, The Culvert loader that didn't work properly are some that come to mind.

Shipping schedules.

Rusty

Did Lionel ever make a 703 Hudson?  In 1950 did they ever make a 2426W tender and letter it NYC?  How many red lettered 3454's did Lionel make?  Or tuscan 3454's?

For Lionel, the goof was even MAKING a "girl's train", for I have had women sneer at

those.  Marx's famous one was the "Bunny Train".  Of course, both of these are now

highly collectible to some....but did not profit their makers.  (Marx's is no mystery,

really, Louis Marx, himself, an undisputed expert in the toy business, got a wild hair, and for, once, lost sight of the potential market)  Dunno what genius dreamed up the "Girl's Train"?  I remain surprised that K-Line even followed up with a copy.  That, too,

is a mystery.  And, then, K-Line's demise remains a mystery to me....how, in today's

world, of patent suits galore, anybody would not do their homework and tread on

other's rights (of course, I am no lawyer, but understand that is a very murky swamp).  And then, greatest of all to me, is what the manufacturers make, and what

they don't make, in O scale, when often it is available in others.  This beats the heck

outta me.

"And, then, K-Line's demise remains a mystery to me....how, in today's world, of patent suits galore, anybody would not do their homework and tread on other's rights?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chutzpah

Probably just a color printing error.  Instead of silver or gray it turned out black when printed.  Back then color printing was nowhere near as accurate to the master color copy as it is today.  Kind of hit or miss.  In Lionel's case it was a miss.

The diecast cars have a run of about 10,000 and the atlas car of about 500-750. It is all about spreading the cost over many more Units. 

Why is a new blue ray player less then $100 and it has more electronics then our trains? Can you say the runs are in the tens of millions and more. It's all about spreading the cost out. Plus what the market will bare. 

As I recall, it's been well documented as the print shop misinterpeting a black and white photo of either the model or a prototype photo.

Rusty

Doubtful that it was a printer error.  More likely (as has also been widely advanced over the years) a mistake made by the individual who created the catalog art.  The original (photo) he worked from was likely an image made in daylight lighting conditions that made the silver look black.  A very easy effect/error to make and for the artist to misinterpret.

How the term "lash-up" came into use 

It's kinda the chicken and egg argument to me.

If the box car was $20 I may buy 5 of them if it was say a PFE Reefer. But same car at $54 I buy zero of them. So is it a self fulfilling sales tactic??

I do some work in the plastic model field currently....and have done work in the die cast model field. So I feel I have a better than average understanding.  If I ever sway some of the money guys I work with to try a train car......we'll see. Would you buy a scale reefer with decent paint and tampo, die cast rucks and detail a bit above a IR car for $20 or so????  Changing  the shape of the mold to produce a box car rather than a police car does not effect the cost greatly. In fact the box car is a simpler mold to cut and run!

Why we can't have "standards' in "O" gauge covering couplers/track/electronic control systems ala the NMRA HO gauge world.........

One of the biggest mysteries to me is why Lionel chose a track gauge of 1.25" but then made most of their trains seriously under scale in proportion to the track gauge. And different sizes with no fixed scale. Because they were just toys I suppose, although Lionel later (1960's?) came up with the blurb "The leader in model railroading". Which they obviously weren't, as the hobby mostly shifted to HO with its more uniformly scale proportions and standards.

So O gauge has been seriously factionalized with scale vs traditional, 3-rail vs 2-rail, AC vs DC power.

Because that would be way too logical and make things way to easy. 

Honestly, though, the O gauge world--and especially the 3-rail O gauge world--has never displayed the unified focus that ultimately emerged in the HO world and which eventually led to a series of industry standards and recommended practices that are pretty much uniformly followed and accepted throughout the scale modeling world (manufacturers and hobbyists alike).

Heck, most in 3-rail, even today, look down their noses at the NMRA because they seem to feel that the NMRA has always regarded O gauge as something of an oddball or elitist organization not to be taken seriously.  The truth of the matter is that the O gauge community--again, hobbyists and industry--has never gotten its act together to the point where it was willing to go through the same sort of exhaustive process that led to recognized standards in the other scale.

We have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Want to feel better about O scale 3 rail???? Get into 'G'!!!! More scales than you can count....even different scales with a single product line! O 3 rail seems very standardized!

Wellll...

Then one would wonder why WBB has followed suit with not only a clone of the original pink steamer set, but also a (GASP!!) pink GG1 passenger set!!!  After all, Bachmann and their marketeers have been around at least 50 years longer than Lionel.

However, re the infamous "Girl's Train"... 

About 10 years ago we (LHS) had a lady bring in a complete Lionel set one morning.   Except for the set seal having been torn open, the rest of it...boxes, paperwork, etc....looked to have never really been exercised.  It was the complete, notorious, infamous, ....jaw-dropping..."Girl"s Set".  She wanted to know whether it was worth anything...and how much.  It had been given to her when she was much younger.  Even back then she knew that a steam locomotive was supposed to be 'black'...and dirty...and there was nary a pastel pink, blue, green,  yellow, whatever...car in all of the trains that ran down the tracks behind her house where she grew up.  The set had essentially been put aside and not played with...an embarassment, a disappointment,...whatever. 

I think she was somewhat flummoxed by the magnetic attention that set-in-the-box drew as other employees and customers suddenly realized what she had. 

Well, we gave her some 'ball-park' idea of what that set in its immaculate condition might be worth...to the right collector.  Now her reaction to its value was about equal to mine at the sight of the boxed set.  She allowed that, just maybe, her dad had been right all along in giving it to her.  Of course, that she had left it untouched all these years was equally 'right', I suppose.

Whereas she admitted she might have parted with it if its value had been as low as she had esteemed it, she then carefully closed the set box flaps, lovingly picked it up, thanked us profusely for making her day, and walked out of the store with a HUGE smile....never to be seen or heard from again.  Considering the numbers we had bandied about in discussing its value with her,  none of us...employees or customers...at that time had the kind of money the Lionel Girl's Set in its near-mint condition would garner.  And I think we were too 'dumb-founded' by the whole morning experience to have spoken up, inquired of her future intent, asked if we could further assist, etc..  She was simply gone forever.

A mistake?  SHE certainly didn't think so!!

KD

KD,

You may have hit on what may be the biggest mystery of all --- that is:

Why do so many people attach such nostalgia to trains and value them, not monetarily, but emotionally for what they mean to us personally.

...similar story in our train shop. A lady brought in, among other items, a Lionel 2338 Milwaukee Road diesel in the original box. You always hold your breath as this one comes out of the box...and sure enough, it was the solid orange strip through the cab version.

Other items in the collection were for sale, but not that one at any price. It had been a gift from her father for a special occasion. Despite being of limited means and despite what the money would have meant to her, she left thrilled, knowing that her father's gift had turned out to be extra special and all the more precious to her.

Jim

Who really was/is Clyde Coil?   

Peter

Most of the early cars by todays standards are small but they were scale or close to it by pre WW-2 1:1 car standards.  They (Lionel/MTH/Atlas) just kept re-issuing the same cars with modern paint schemes.

There are enough people to justify making die cast cars by the tens of thousands.  There aren't enough people interested in trains to do so.  While YOU might buy five cars if they were cheaper, there aren't enough of the rest of US to buy enough cars to get the price points where you suggest.  This isn't strictly an issue of price driving the market.  There are no longer enough people interested in trains of almost any kind to support the production levels necessary to get the prices that far down.

I guess another "mystery of the hobby" would be why I got involved with vintage "toy trains" in my mid-50's, after a lifetime of scale HO trains where I abhorred cheap unrealistic train-set items that didn't match a prototype. Turns out I like "heavy metal" and vintage "made in U.S. of America".

You're so right.  That was the reason I got out of G (1:22.5). 

As I recall that story, Allan's information is correct. There was an article somewhere I saw about this years ago, and included photos of the Santa Fe silver Fs in certain light conditions in side shots, where the shading made the silver appear black. The article said that these kinds of photos happened to be the ones used by Lionel, and led to the mistaken belief that the engines were painted black.

Sounds like TCA needs a "Standards Committee", but don't they have one?  Another

task for it?  The NMRA one didn't get it all right, of course, they came up with the

"NMRA" couplers which have been abandoned in favor of knuckle couplers (which at

least we can take pride in beating them to, although you could see modern technology

as surely reducing ours down closer to scale)

Taking a page from George Eliot, Clyde Coil is the pen name of Magnetta.

That clears that up.

Not a mystery. Perhaps a marketing error, but virtually every company has those from time to time.... at least those who chose to attempt innovation, for which we should be grateful.

Traditionally, it hasn't been those types of standards that were addressed by the committee. But, even if they took it on, there's a big difference between setting standards and having manufacturers adhere to them.

Jim

 The biggest mystery in the hobby is a mystery no longer it's the clickety-clack sound that keeps me coming back for more. It's like an addiction! That and Christmas and more trains!

Mike Maurice

The other problem Jim, is if standards were introduced that didn't match all the stuff we already own, then, where to next? I think most of us would just stop buying new standardized stuff. Also, I think all the wacky inconsistencies, not just in the US, but with 1:48 v 1:45 V 1:43.5 differences around the world, add to the charm of the hobby.

I read that most of those blunders occured in 1998 alone, and that it was Lionel's most troublesome time in the Modern Era since the move to Tijuana, Mexico in 1982. I didn't even know the 1998 Mohawk had electronic bugs in it.

AMCDave:

I have a small collection of mostly 1:18 automobiles (like who here doesn't?); I have

voiced the question myself to friends as to why this nice, big, accurate Plymouth

Road Runner cost me $35 - or less - and a very basic boxcar cost me the same - or more.

Still a partial mystery, and market size matters, but a some explanation for me can

be found in the relative engineering and robustness of the two items. The boxcar has

to actually operate and survive in a kinetic world of movement and occasional

damage, yet still acceptably function (like the real thing). That 1:18 automobile

doesn't have to do anything but pose, look pretty and collect dust. It will take almost

no abuse without damage or shattering. It is really rather poorly built when you get 

away from the looks (and the fit and finish is not up to model RR standards,

really). The boxcar is actually a little piece of equipment, but the automobile

is just a sculpture.

So very true!  It actually takes manufacturer participation in the process..a definite "must"!  You could never hope to develop "standards" if the process simply involved a group of hobbyists or just a single manufacturer or two.  It's probably a bit late in the 3-rail O gauge environment for this kind of thing to ever materialize.  The opportunity was missed back in the late 80s or very early 90s, if it even existed at that time.

Despite the lack of published standards everything seems to work fairly well together in 3-rail, excepting of course command system incompatibility.

Even if basic standards were established, there would still be occasional issues with roller spacing and dead spots on switches, etc., etc. You can't take every possible scenario into account - too many variables - although some would have you try, I'm sure.

Jim

If you want a mess, dive deeply into the non-existent G Scale and couplers than run from Hook and Loop, Kadees, Aristo-Craft etc. In some things variety is not the spice of life.